No Colors Anymore? - Page 2

I can use color just fine :) (Im glad i dont abuse it..)

Ah man!!

You guys convinced me that it's more than just Dave who wants color (Sorry to single you out, Dave). Color has been restored.

Thank you.

Well, this is a heated debate about something so small!! Personally I think colour is cool if used properly. It can be used to emphsize points made in your discussion. OK, so it can be over used to, but, o be honest, I thnk the people who do over use colour just do it for a joke, or are not really interested in what they are saying. People who are serious will use colours seriously. LOL, looks like poor Dani was outdone. I think if we were in the room with her (WE should be so lucky :cheesy: ) we would see her face slightly start to frown!!

Thank you Dani :)

Too bad its just a GLOBAL option (Otherwise you could disable it from abusive users)

vBulletin allows for two settings. Controlling color in posts and controlling color in forum signatures. Unfortunately there is no option to enable/disable color bbcode based on the forum or the usergroup.

:(

Now no centering?

I hate in when I post stuff that gets changed after the fact. It discourages me from posting.

What you may not realize is that sometimes format changes result in context changes. Or, form can change function.

I was pleasantly surprised by this:
http://community.slickedit.com/

While you are regressing away from features, others are adding them.

Now no centering?
I was pleasantly surprised by this:
http://community.slickedit.com/

While you are regressing away from features, others are adding them.

What do you mean with that? That looks like an normal forum to me!

What is the point of this guy's post being in blue?

http://www.daniweb.com/techtalkforums/thread56896.html

GRR

What is the point of this guy's post being in blue?

http://www.daniweb.com/techtalkforums/thread56896.html

GRR

At least he was apologetic about it...

Yes, but I regret I didn't take the time to read the whole thread to see that the 'no blue' was handled already.

What is the point of this guy's post being in blue?

http://www.daniweb.com/techtalkforums/thread56896.html

GRR

Well, maybe he likes blue writing on a white background.

Maybe he thinks it suits his mood.

I like it.

What is the point of your question about this unremarkable post?

Are you obsessed with other people 's preferences for use of colour?

Should you perhaps ponder your micro management of this site and consider what it's doing to your mental health? :cheesy:

It's the countless hours, tens of thousands of dollars spent, airplane rides, hotels, and so much more, all to improve the site usability on DaniWeb ... hundreds of hours of thought and effort and consultations with usability experts and graphic designers just to come up with the exact size and the amount of line spacing and very specific shade of grey to use for the text against the specific shades of yellow and purple.

Users changing the color negates all of that hard work and effort. Not to mention, it makes things look VERY unprofessional, which directly affects revenue in a very big way. Plus, the shade of blue is the same shade used for links, so it makes things confusing to usability when links are no longer the only thing on the site that shade of blue. In that sense, it undermines all of the effort I've put into site usability for anyone who sees that post. One of the most important tools a web designer has at their disposal is the usage of color. Color is a HUGE navigational tool when used correctly. Often times, visitors don't even realize a color pattern, but their subconscious still uses the pattern to aid their navigation throughout a site. For example, on DaniWeb, text is always a dark grey, yellow is always used to indicate navigation and tools related to the current page, purple is always used to indicate sitewide navigation, regular links are always blue, grey is used to highlight secondary content, orange is used for syndicated content, and so on and so forth.

It's all about color theory. I can't even begin to tell you how much thought went into the specific shades to highlight admin and moderator usernames! (Ask me sometime, I love to explain my reasoning!)

Different colors evoke different emotions. They make people think of certain things. Green and black may make people think of those old computer terminals, for example. The shade of purple for admin usernames is the same exact shade used in the PHP.net logo. The shade of orange used for Team Colleagues is from the FireFox fox logo.

In any case, when the visitor comes across text where these rules don't hold, the mind realizes that it can no longer rely on color as a guaranteed navigational aid.

Color within posts is something I am very strongly against because it can so easily affect user retention rates, conversion rates, and revenue, in a very big way ... much more than I think any of you guys realize.

It's for this reason why I want to disable WYSIWYG features which have the ability to alter those aspects of the site which so much effort has been put into ... font size, for example. There can be two webpages with the same content and design, but a different font size for each one can affect how trustworthy the site comes across to the reader.

usability experts and graphic designers just to come up with the exact size and the amount of line spacing and very specific shade of grey to use for the text against the specific shades of yellow and purple.

I know 'colour forecasting' is a full time job in the fashion industry and I find it hard to stomach that members of the species homo sapiens sapiens can make such trivial use of their sapience. These 'experts' may charge a lot and may even use statistical methods but to say that one specific shade of grey is the only one possible is patently wrong. The fact that other people prefer other colours is evidence of that.

They may have come up with a colour that appeals to the majority but, if user retention is your aim, you also have to consider the effect that management style and restrictive usage policies have on membership.

I think you've been sold the emperor's new clothes and have made at least one interested new user extremely wary of this site.

I'm not saying that one specific shade of grey is the best. What I'm saying is that we've tried lots and lots and lots of different things here, and done A/B studies up the wazzoo, and eventually have settled down with what seems to have the best retention rates for us.

Reread post #43 please. I edited it while you were replying. It is certainly not my goal to make you wary of the site and I'm very sorry if I have ... it's for that reason why I have put Davey in charge as community leader, while I focus more on the behind-the-scenes stuff.

They may have come up with a colour that appeals to the majority but, if user retention is your aim, you also have to consider the effect that management style and restrictive usage policies have on membership.

You are quite wrong, I'm afraid.

The user policies at DaniWeb are far from restrictive, and do benefit the majority of members. Yes, we are tough on what we perceive as spam or solicitation, yes we fight to keep all discussion on-site, and yes we do care about the professional look and feel of the place. But remember also that DaniWeb is one of just a handful of resources of this size and quality that offer technical support totally free of charge. The money for that has to come from somewhere, and that somehwere is advertising, and advertisers are influenced about how professional the site looks.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself if your love of coloured fonts within non-code related postings should come before the need to keep DaniWeb viable?

As for the Dani management style, well I seem to recall in this very thread that she changed her decision about colour based upon the input from the membership. However, there does have to be a chain-of-command within any online community, or at least any professional one that hopes to remain that way, and at DaniWeb that consists of Admin (Dani and now myself), Super Mods and Mods.

I won't say we get everything right, but we learn as we go along. Overall I will say that I think DaniWeb is doing a pretty good job...

You are quite wrong, I'm afraid.

How can I be wrong when I'm reporting my own feelings about this?
Do you understand how I feel better than me?

But remember also that DaniWeb is one of just a handful of resources of this size and quality that offer technical support totally free of charge. The money for that has to come from somewhere.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself if your love of coloured fonts within non-code related postings should come before the need to keep DaniWeb viable?

This is a commercial site but its existence is made viable by the willingness of experts, its membership, to offer their time and advice for nothing. Perhaps you need to ask yourself how sensible it is to treat them like naughty school kids.

How can I be wrong when I'm reporting my own feelings about this?

OK, perhaps I should have said 'in my opinion, you are quite wrong' but assumed you would realise that.

This is a commercial site but its existence is made viable by the willingness of experts, its membership, to offer their time and advice for nothing.

Indeed, and that advice can only be given and received if it is not lost amongst a multitude of spam postings, off-topic drivel and even plain wrong advice. Which is where the mods come in, and why their job is so vital to the value of this resource. Without them, without the rules that are in place, you might just as well go Google and take your chances with the information you find. Forum management is essential in maintaining the value of this support resource, and if that management is too warm and fluffy it just won't work.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself how sensible it is to treat them like naughty school kids.

That is quite simply not the case. Nobody is treated like a naughty school kid, unless they behave like one of course :)

Serious question: would you rather there were no rules here, and no forum management? If so, do your truly believe the value of the resource would remain so high, with regard to the quality of support offered and access to it?

OK, perhaps I should have said 'in my opinion, you are quite wrong' but assumed you would realise that.

I realise that you think your opinions are unquestionable but your opinion that I am reporting my feelings incorrectly is risible.

Indeed, and that advice can only be given and received if it is not lost amongst a multitude of spam postings, off-topic drivel and even plain wrong advice. Which is where the mods come in, and why their job is so vital to the value of this resource. Without them, without the rules that are in place, you might just as well go Google and take your chances with the information you find. Forum management is essential in maintaining the value of this support resource, and if that management is too warm and fluffy it just won't work.

I believe that forum management should indeed be about filtering out "a multitude of spam postings, off-topic drivel and even plain wrong advice". You'd do well to stick to that. But that's not what I'm complaining about. I am discouraged by the micro-management of jumping on a poster simply because they prefer to use blue on white. Maybe it's their trademark and they use it on all the forums in which they participate. I understand Dani's desire to have a neat and professional looking site but this colour issue seems like control freakery.

I would lose little by not visiting this site again as I would probably only have done so to offer advice rather than to seek help but with the welcome you offer, with your snide and condescending comments: "assumed you would realise that", "warm and fluffy just won't work"; and with the ever present possibility that I'll be unwittingly singing from the wrong hymnbook I remain unconvinced that I should contribute freely to DaniWeb.

Serious question: would you rather there were no rules here, and no forum management? If so, do your truly believe the value of the resource would remain so high, with regard to the quality of support offered and access to it?

If your best shot at a serious question uses reductio ad absurdum then gawd 'elp us all. You are making yourself look ridiculous as it is an easy question to answer. No, I would not "rather there were no rules here". I have never suggested as such.

OK, there seems little point in going any further with this as you seem to have gone down the road of personal insult now.

Oooook now this didn't go where I was hoping.

What do you mean with that? That looks like an normal forum to me!

They're adding features, not removing them (see attached image).

While Dani is struggling to create Notepad, I want Word.

Playing to the lowest common denomonator gets you just that: the 3-posters-and-gone. The forum junkies will go elseweb. There have been a couple of things I've wanted to write lately, but I don't know how the context will be changed after the fact by a mood swing or paid consultation. Bob's tutorials that look crappy are the ones I didn't try to fix after the last mood swing. Stuff I have written has been changed after the fact as well.

Why write anything if what you have written is going to change?

Why don't the mods rewrite every dumb-ass post the way it ought to be? Because that's neither what the OP was asking nor what the next newb would search for.

Different colors evoke different emotions. They make people think of certain things. Green and black may make people think of those old computer terminals, for example.

No offense, but I've always thought that Daniweb's current rendition of code in code tags is about as readable as untagged code. I hate it. I prefer pretty much every other attempt I've seen.

Do what you want, Dani -- it's your place. But I think you do have the emporer's new clothes, and I see other sites overtaking your policies (I've never visited a site with as many rules) by the very thing that made forums popular: aggregation of talent and the ability to express yourself exactly as you want -- whether or not you find out after 3 posts that you look like a dumb-ass.

[edit]Davey, how would you like it if suddenly one or more post of yours suddenly lacked bulleted/numbered lists? When your carefully laid out text suddenly looked like less than what you posted? Would you not say to yourself -- "Hey, that's not what I wrote!?!"

If other reasonable and prudent methods of emphasis suddenly made your statements look muddy and incoherent as opposed to what you wrote at the time you wrote it?

I'll let Davey comment on the rest, but I just want to point out that I am aware of the situation with Bob's tutorials and am currently working with Davey on coming up with a solution for a total makeover on the entire tutorial section.

Aside from that, I do understand the concern of posts being changed from how you meant them to look when you posted them, with changing and removing features after the fact. For me, with DaniWeb being my first site, it's all been a total learning process with things evolving and changing over time. I don't think it's feasable for you to expect the exact same rules and policies on the site with 100,000 members as when we had ten. On all forums, there is an evolution process over time, where posts that would have been acceptable three years ago are no longer permitted due to bad experiences, and so on and so forth. So at some point, you have to just realize that we have grown twenty-fold since you've registered here, and naturally there will be a progression and evolution in terms of rules, and atmosphere, and site design, etc.

I understand what you're saying, Dave. Let me sleep on it, and I'll see if I can come up with some good solutions that will please everybody.

Oooook now this didn't go where I was hoping.

Nor me :(

They're adding features, not removing them (see attached image).

In fairness Dave, so is Dani. It's just that she has been adding different features and removing ones that you have a fondness for, IYSWIM?

Why don't the mods rewrite every dumb-ass post the way it ought to be? Because that's neither what the OP was asking nor what the next newb would search for.

Agreed.

No offense, but I've always thought that Daniweb's current rendition of code in code tags is about as readable as untagged code. I hate it. I prefer pretty much every other attempt I've seen.

This is one area I really don't feel qualified to talk about, as I'm no code junkie and it all looks like Chinese to me :)

Without wishing to re-open old wounds for either you or Dani, maybe it would be useful to list (again, here, in this thread) exactly what you dislike about the current code-tagging, what you would like to see added, and why.

If we can get some reasoned debate going about it all, then surely as adults we can all come up with an acceptable solution?

Davey, how would you like it if suddenly one or more post of yours suddenly lacked bulleted/numbered lists? When your carefully laid out text suddenly looked like less than what you posted? Would you not say to yourself -- "Hey, that's not what I wrote!?!"

Agreed, I would think exactly that. In my case it might not be so bad as the context would not have changed, just the layout, but if that impacted on readability then I would not be best pleased.

But it's the readability issue that is at the heart of all this isn't it?

I agree with you that colour when used correctly is a good thing, and by correctly I mean when it aids readability rather than is used just because the OP discovers he/she can have words in alternate green and orange.

I think that, ultimately, is comes down to moderation again. If we have the formatting abilities you would like, then the use of those capabilities has to be closely monitored to prevent postings becoming unreadable, distracting or of reduced value. Which then swings back to us looking more rule-happy than most forums as we try to stop people abusing the system.

One point that I think it is important to make is that at least here we are having this debate, and it includes the owner of the site, and we will reach a happy conclusion once the debate is exhausted. On many sites that may appear less rule happy and strict, there just isn't that open access to the deicsion making process, nor willingness on the part of the decision makers to listen.

And hey, although it may not seem like it sometimes, thanks for kicking this all off as I think it is a largely healthy debate which will end up producing a better DaniWeb...

Err... i dont want to be caught in the middle of "Lord of the forums: battle for colored text " but in my personal opinion, i completely agree with Mr. Dave. It would be really nice to see my code snippet in color rather than a dull shade of green. Even text editors today have syntax highlighters so why not DaniWeb.

I belive it just involves reading the keywords and all that stuff from the XML file and accordingly rendering the code and other things in color. Is it such a big overhead or are there some other issues ?

I think you misunderstood - That isn't what this thread is about at all. Syntax highlighting code within the forums is something I've been considering doing when I have the time in the future. Right now the issue that is being discussed is whether the little WYSIWYG editors should include a color selection tool, similar to Word, where users can highlight anything they want in any color they want.

whether the little WYSIWYG editors should include a color selection tool, similar to Word, where users can highlight anything they want in any color they want.

Even i that case i go with Mr. Dave.

Well then you're in luck because I finally caved in on the color issue awhile back :)