Overly Critical?

[autocrat]

Hi folks...

Awkward topic for me to discuss... but I'm seriously doubting myself onthis one...

Am I being overly critical?

I look through the "reviews" section and do my best to find problems, and list them, often with the possible cause or a solution.
I do this in several communities, in the hopes of rasing the genral standard and ensure even noobs get the right idea from the start.

Yet a current site under review seems to have hit a major problem - the developer seems to think I'me being a "nerd" and nit-picking.

http://www.daniweb.com/forums/newpostinthread88870.html

Please, those of you that care to comment;
Am I being overly critical in such things?
Do I fault find to readily?
Should I not bother with attepting to help correct such issues?

Or is it simply that some people willalways respond like that?

NOTE:
I am aware that my repsonse were not the best, nor particularly mature, grown up or ven fair - I'm just tired of this profession being flooded with those that shouldn't be allowed to charge for what they produce - at least not without warning the clients of the level of the workmanship.
So, if you can forgive my impatience, immaturity etc., it would be appreciated.

[happygeek]

I have responded in the review thread as well, questioning why the OP bothered asking for a review if he gets upset when someone responds with valid and rather helpful advice.

I don't think you were being immature or overly critical, quite the reverse in fact.

Keep it up. If people really want to learn, really want to improvem they will thank you for it.

If they are just really trying to get a free advert for their site, well doesn't really matter what you say does it? :)

[autocrat]

Thank you, both for the response and the support.

Was worried I was doing it wrong... I'd hate to be tackling the problem badly and ot povide help...

Glad I'm not doing it wrog :)

[MattEvans]

His replies were more extreme ( and personal ) than your statements. He is the one being 'overly' anything, by being 'overly childish' in his reprisal. His site looks ok, perhaps he just wanted a superficial review rather than a probing inspection of code. Since the company advertises website design, I think a probing inspection of code is reasonable. I would rate it as being absoultely devoid of any information, but I hate 'advert' sites.

I particularly like the way you've put 'Use of Tables could be supplanted with Divs.' as apposed to something like 'replacing tables with divs will probably be optimum' =P But then, I am a nerd.

In short, you're justified in my eyes; you actually went out of your way to evaluate the site.

I'm going to add 'you belong in the matrix' to my library of heavy insults XD

[autocrat]

thank you...

Lol @ at the Matrix

[respree]

Am I being overly critical in such things?
Do I fault find to readily?
Should I not bother with attepting to help correct such issues?

In my opinion, the answer is "No," on all counts. I have a little experience reviewing websites (you may recognize my nick from another forum), so I'll share a little with you.

I find that for most people, a website is like a little baby and its owner a proud parent.

They want the best for their baby. They feed it, nurture it, see it develop, grow and mature.

Some are very protective of it and will react harshly when unkind words are said about it. Whether the criticism or advice being offered is actually true is besides the point, to them.

I think what you are really asking in this thread is "why did the person react the way they did?"

The answer to that question lies in what I've just said above.

If you wish to minimize the chances of avoiding these harsh reactions in the future, in my view, diplomacy goes a long way.

There are always two ways to say something - I prefer to pick the nicer of the two.

I like to use certain phrases, sprinkled throughout my advice, that try to put the reviewer at ease and hopefully make them more receptive to what is being offered.

Here are some of these phrases:

- "I'd like to you some constructive criticism about your site"
- "You might want to consider doing ___________"
- "If it were me, I'd probably ____________"
- "You could greatly benefit from ____________"
- "I hope you find these suggestions useful to you"
- "I would recommend/suggest/advice _________"
- "I have found this technique really helpful _____________"

I avoid words like "crap, hell, don't do, ugly, etc." and other words that the reviewer might find offensive. An offended person will likely responded with, well, an offensive response.

This, of course, may not be your style, but I find that it works well for me.

I hope you find that these suggestions will be helpful to you. ;-)

[reen.blom]

Hey thank you for doing all that trouble to help and review!!!!

If they dont like it- well too mad for THEM!! LOL

[cavok]

Hmm.. Maybe I'm stepping out of line by providing a dissenting opinion, but I think you were being a little cheeky in your first reply which quite clearly got a rise out of him, whether or not this was your intention.

Perhaps saying something like "I've written a reply to another post, and having looked at your site, much of this applies.." would have been better received.

Your subsequent replies were also a bit cheeky, presumably because you were miffed by his comments..

I agree with your thoughts on making the best darn product you can. In fact, I applaud your efforts to provide some structure and standards to the community, but try not to take the high-and-mighty road with people, and never, ever get involved in an escalation to bickering.

I guess what I'm saying is, be humble, and show you're the bigger person.

Just my two cents..
J

[reen.blom]

Hmm.. Maybe I'm stepping out of line by providing a dissenting opinion, but I think you were being a little cheeky in your first reply which quite clearly got a rise out of him, whether or not this was your intention.

Perhaps saying something like "I've written a reply to another post, and having looked at your site, much of this applies.." would have been better received.

Your subsequent replies were also a bit cheeky, presumably because you were miffed by his comments..

I agree with your thoughts on making the best darn product you can. In fact, I applaud your efforts to provide some structure and standards to the community, but try not to take the high-and-mighty road with people, and never, ever get involved in an escalation to bickering.

I guess what I'm saying is, be humble, and show you're the bigger person.

Just my two cents..
J

Ag come one.... to me it look like the guy did not realy want any critisism, and if he is asking people to spend their time on reviewing HE could have been a bit more friendly himself....

[cavok]

HE could have been a bit more friendly himself....

=0) Agreed. I'm not arguing that fact, but this is where the "be a bigger person" part of my post comes in.. If we're trying to up the standards of this forum, then we have to set the example for behaviour ourselves. This means (at least in my mind) being as professional as possible, and gently reminding people that perhaps they're out of line if the conversation turns for the worse..

One of the age-old problems with posting boards is this whole ego-trip that people go on when they're tucked cosily behind their computer screen. (this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but a general comment about message boards) If we can check the attitude at the door, and just focus on helping each other out, this whole process would be a lot smoother. Wouldn't it?

J

[MattEvans]

Well.. call me wrong but the party with a noticable ego trip seemed to be the guy asking for the review.

People with a deserved high ego can be a little annoying; but they're rarer and generally more useful than people who provide little of worth, expect alot in return, and get insulted by any kind of criticism they recieve. That's also not directed at anyone specific.

Agreed though, it's much more dignified to remain calm and collected in any situation. Flipping out and throwing personal insults isn't helpful for anyone.

[cavok]

Ja, it could have been ego, it could have been language or cultural barrier as well, who knows? Either way, I'm with you that insult-throwing isn't helpful.. :)

I'm not sure about the concept of "deserved high ego" I've had the rare opportunity to interact with some incredibly brilliant people over the last several years, and though their heads could have been entirely swollen, they were some of the most humble, down to earth folk I've ever met. For this, they've earned my utmost respect.. People that feel they deserve my respect without earning it get my back up.

J

J

[MattEvans]

Well, certainly not everyone who perhaps 'deserves' a high ego has such a thing in all areas of their life, I wouldn't expect that... Let's say ego is relative; there's 2 valid definitions of ego; both defs can be treated relatively. If person A gives person B advice, and person B ignores it, I would guess that's because person B thinks that person A doesn't have anything to add to person B's knowledge. That's ego ( an inflated sense of self [ relatively ] ) in my eyes; whether person A is right or wrong. But, if person B 'knows' person A is wrong; and person A is wrong, that ego ( sense of self ) is deserved; otherwise, it isn't. That's one example; but I can think of many examples where someone having an inflated sense of self relative to someone else in a given area might be completely reasonable.

>>People that feel they deserve my respect without earning it get my back up.

Everyone deserves some degree of respect in a way though. If those brilliant people had that attitude; you'd have had a hell of a job earning their respect.

[reen.blom]

Ja, it could have been ego, it could have been language or cultural barrier as well, who knows? Either way, I'm with you that insult-throwing isn't helpful.. :)

I'm not sure about the concept of "deserved high ego" I've had the rare opportunity to interact with some incredibly brilliant people over the last several years, and though their heads could have been entirely swollen, they were some of the most humble, down to earth folk I've ever met. For this, they've earned my utmost respect.. People that feel they deserve my respect without earning it get my back up.

J

J

Hey this is almost from the Bible!

But hey where do you find THAT nowadays???

*Agreed*