Need a motherboard brand/id

[cwarn23]

Hi, I'm trying to get a new computer but even the computer techi is stuck on this one. The basic situation is I'm buying a custom built computer and I need to find an appropriate motherboard. The thing that makes this request different is that the motherboard needs to be able to have 3 to 4 i7 cores (i7 core socket inputs/outputs) attached to it so that I can get 3-4 times the speed of a regular i7 core. So the first question is does anybody know of any mother boards with 3 or 4 sockets in them that will accept i7 cores in each of those sockets.
The second question is a minor one regarding the power supply to power all of this stuff. So the second question is are there any powerboxes that can supply about 900 Watt or what is the practical limitation on the power supply?

Note the the core (i7) is intel based and none of the other components have been decided yet.
Thanks for your time.
cwarn23

[crunchie]

One here for AMD; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182203R
I doubt that there is one for Intel.

I doubt you will achieve what you are after anyway as the bus on the motherboards would restrict it anyway.

[cwarn23]

Then will the new Intel i9 series when it's released have any multi socket functionality like the current Xeon or am I mistaken on that one?

Also I think I found a power supply on ebay which can do 900 watt but I'm hoping it's a computer power supply as I would look silly giving the techi the model number to something like an air conditioner power supply. ;)

[crunchie]

I think you can get PSU's up to 1500 watt now :).
To be honest, if you want the fastest PC around, go for the 980x cpu. http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=980X&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

[caperjack]

hi i think this is one of the reasons for developing i7 multicore cpus was so one didn't need to have a multi socked motherboard anymore,4 core in one accomplishes this for the average user ,all the mutil socket boars i looked at so far are server motherboards

[cwarn23]

I think you can get PSU's up to 1500 watt now :).
To be honest, if you want the fastest PC around, go for the 980x cpu. http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=980X&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

I just checked the cpu that you posted and it is a tiny cpu compared to my needs (6 core 12 threads 3.33GHz :( ) I need something more like 3.33GHz 16 core - 32 threaded at minimum. Preferably something that totals the threads to between 100GHz and 150GHz. But any more than that I would happily pay for as I calculated for a truly efficient job, I would require 850GHz (all threads added up). So as you can see I am stuck in the middle of a rock and a hard place where the technology simply doesn't exist. So what would be your recommendations on the how abouts of achieving lets say 125GHz for a desktop PC cpu (all threads added up that is).

In case you wonder what I would do with ever so much cpu, I am rendering computer generated animations that are high definition and can last for about 10mins each animation at a frame rate of 30 frames/images per second using ray tracing and progressive rendering technology.

[crunchie]

You are dreaming then, to be honest. I have a 6 core processor and I have it running at 4050Mhz. Each core runs at exactly the same speed. You cannot simply add them together and get 24300Mhz. It just doesn't work that way. I wish I could say it did :).
Doesn't matter how many cores you have, they still will only run at a given speed.
If you have software that is multithreaded and can take advantage of multiple cores though, then that is where you will get a faster rendering result.

[cwarn23]

You are dreaming then, to be honest. I have a 6 core processor and I have it running at 4050Mhz. Each core runs at exactly the same speed. You cannot simply add them together and get 24300Mhz. It just doesn't work that way. I wish I could say it did :).
Doesn't matter how many cores you have, they still will only run at a given speed.
If you have software that is multi-threaded and can take advantage of multiple cores though, then that is where you will get a faster rendering result.

Well adding the cores is a statistical way of doing a comparison of what you get between different cpu's with different number of cores and different core sizes. So basically by adding the threads together, you can get a true comparison between different cpu's and to some degree, makes it easier to see what performance you would expect. A bit like using the term vegitables to compare apples and oranges. Although indeed you are correct that it isn't scientifically proven, however it is instead a statistical measurement unit for comparison. So if you like I can convert the statistical measurement into several formats for you to make it easier. For this example I'll use what I require which is 100GHz. Below is a two examples to get 100GHz in the technical format.
3.2GHz 16 core 32 threaded
2.1GHz 24 core 48 threaded
So the above two examples are also examples of the type of cpu I am looking for. And of course the one with the bigger chip and smaller number of threads is the cpu that would be the worthy one. Also note that this is a desktop PC and although there are some good cpu's in the Xeon server range (with dual sockets), I can't seem to find anything for a huge desktop PC.
Hopefully that makes it clearer.
Also at the moment I am getting ready for bed so I'll be back in the morning as it is late at night here so don't be surprised if you don't get an immediate reply.

[edit]
After taking a closer look at the Xeon documentation it appears I would also need 4 sockets or at least 3 sockets for the Xeon core. Pity they don't make 3.47GHz 8 core on the Xeon or i7 range but instead they spoiled it with just 4 core 3.47GHz.
[/edit]

[crunchie]

To get what you want would take individual processors, clock them to the speed of light and beyond and be able to use that speed in a limited motherboard bus.
I will say again though, you cannot simply add the speeds of individual cores together, as they all run at the same speed.
If you turn on a power socket in your house you will get the rated volts from that socket (240V over here). If you turn on a second one, how many volts do you now have? The same, or double? Same goes for your cores.
If you have a four lane highway you cannot get eight lanes of traffic up it. Same thing for what you want.

[saxmaster49]

For what you want to do I would suggest a 1u opteron server such as this http://www.amax.com/CS_ProductDetail.asp?cs_id=H1202 or this for xenon http://www.amax.com/CS_ProductDetail.asp?cs_id=X1401

OR you could go with a workstation computer or a minicluster for cluster computing. I am not sure what software you are running for the 3d rendering but since it has such high requirements I am sure it supports cluster computing.

I personally would go cluster with a small blade server rack and 5 or so blade servers.

[cwarn23]

@crunchie
If motherboards support multiple sockets and multiple sockets don't make any difference on performance then why do they exist? Obviously the don't exist for the i7 range but for the AMD cores sockets from a quick glance appears to be a popular feature?

@saxmaster49
Thanks for those two links and the Xeon is what attracts my eyes. After reading closely is it true that it can have 4x any xeon core with a maximum of 32 core? Also can this be used as a desktop computer with something like 2GB graphics? Thanks for that is it is greatly appreciated. By the way the software I am using doesn't support cluster computing but the reason for the high cpu rankings is because I am using parts of the program that were never meant to be used until another 10 years from now when cpu's would be by far greater.

[saxmaster49]

multi socket i7's do exist however the xenon is a better processor, its an architecture for servers. The highest end intel processor is always called xeon, its not a codeword like yorkfield or wolfsdale. The i7 version of the xeon comes out in march.

the multiple sockets do not make a performance difference for most applications and operating systems. For them to be effective they must be programmed to take advantage of the multiple threads. Ie. each thread takes care of a different stream of data, if the program is not programmed to use multiple threads then you might as well have a single core running. The cores do not add up to a single faster core. This being said, most rendering programs are programmed to take advantage of multiple cores and multiple threads. You should check what your program uses as there is no point in going beyond that. Also check if it uses multimedia instruction such as MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4, or EM64T and get processors that use that as they greatly increase rendering speeds.

Depending on how you set this up, yes it could be used as a desktop computer, you would need to get something other than a blade chassis so you could put in a graphics card and you would need a much higher power supply. It will NOT be efficient at running games, it should not be used as a basic gaming/everyday computer, its simply not built for it. This is one of the reasons I like cluster computing. Each computer is its own entity and takes a small part of the task at hand. You can still use each computer as a desktop pc for gaming and what not but together they work like a mini supercomputer.

Could you post the program your using and the encoding and rendering you plan on doing? This would help in picking something out.

[crunchie]

+1 for what saxmaster49 said. Multiple cores do not add up to a faster processor.

[cwarn23]

The program that I am using is called "Twilight Render" and is a plugin for google sketchup. It has a demo version and there is also a premium version for $99 USD. I'm planning to get the premium version at the same time as this new computer. Also I am sure that this program will be able to handle up to 255 threads ((2^8)-1) or at the very least 15 threads ((2^4)-1). So for that reason I want each core to be a decent number of GHz in the event of a 15 thread limitation. However I will need 2 extra threads on top of the rendering so that I can do regular work while it's rendering. So I am looking at something like 4GHz 6 core x 2 sockets if possible. Also is it possible to get cpu and motherboards custom built because that seems to be the major problem with the limited high end range on the market. Also this computer needs to be able to handle some 3d games I have been building in the c++ irrlich engine. I figured logically a big computer with big graphics would handle these game no problem but maybe I was wrong.

So could somebody point me in the right direction even if the cpu will only exist in another 6 months, where could I get a 4GHz cpu 6 core with a dual sockets motherboard that will allow for both extreme gaming and extreme rendering/processing? Also I would prefer to keep the number of cores low even if it costs more to get high amount of GHz. Thanks.
cwarn23

[crunchie]

http://www.pugetsystems.com/parts/CPU/AMD-Opteron-G34-6174-12-Core-2-2GHz-80W-6918

[saxmaster49]

I'm wondering if you realize that this program is Graphics card rendering intensive, not cpu?

you may want to read this. http://sites.google.com/site/sketchupsage/faster/computer

This is a Single Core Optimized program ie. what I posted before, having 32 cores wont help you at all.

[cwarn23]

I'm wondering if you realize that this program is Graphics card rendering intensive, not cpu?

you may want to read this. http://sites.google.com/site/sketchupsage/faster/computer

This is a Single Core Optimized program ie. what I posted before, having 32 cores wont help you at all.

From what you are saying only applies to google sketchup itself. It does not apply to it's extension twilight render. Perhaps the below link will clear things up on this subject.
http://www.twilightrender.com/features
Also the twilight render is multithreaded and I know that for a fact as I have seen "twilight render" render on all 8 threads 100% cpu of a i7 3.2GHz 4 core 8 threads. However as you say the editing tool itself (Sketchup) won't take advantage of the additional cores nor does it need to. It is only twilight the plugin which will take advantage of the additional cores allowing for a maximum quality imagery render.

As for where I am with this problem, I need something with big cores as previously mention (eg 3GHz minimum and preferably 4GHz) which has 6 core or 12 thread at 4GHz or if it's 3GHz per core, then it would need to be 8 core 16 thread each option with an associated motherboard of 2 sockets. So basically three options on the board. In case you missed them they are:
3GHz 8 core 16 thread with associated mother board dual sockets
4GHz 6 core 12 thread with associated mother board dual sockets
Custom made cpu with custom made motherboard that has dual sockets
Also just a note if there is the option I prefer Intel if they provide it and this does need to be compatible with my big games too.
Does anybody know how to fulfill those requirements?

[saxmaster49]

I apologize, I did read the wrong thing.

Since you want to game, I suggest this motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188070

2 of this cpu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223
4 sets of this ram http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145224

and either a single 480 gtx or two 460 gtx's

Then just get an appropriate psu and some hard drives. this will give you the best balance between gaming and rendering.

hope this helps

[cwarn23]

I apologize, I did read the wrong thing.

Since you want to game, I suggest this motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188070

2 of this cpu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223
4 sets of this ram http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145224

and either a single 480 gtx or two 460 gtx's

Then just get an appropriate psu and some hard drives. this will give you the best balance between gaming and rendering.

hope this helps

Could somebody (or original poster) just confirm that the suggested motherboard is compatible with the cpu because the page says it's for Xeon. Can somebody elaborate/explain on this for me? Other than that I think my problem is pretty much solved.

[crunchie]

Wait a few more years and you may find what you are after. More cores + higher frequencies = more heat.
Until the die sizes are reduced, or you use extreme cooling, I think you are stuck.

That board/cpu combo are compatible, but do not have the specs you are looking for. I had already suggested the 980X which apparently did not suit your needs?

[cwarn23]

I would agree with you there but if I was to purchase the i7-980X then would the Xeon motherboard suggested allow for dual i7 sockets?

[crunchie]

They are both LGA1366 sockets, so they will be compatible.
As I said in my last post though, I suggested the 980X earlier and you said it was too tiny for your needs.

[cwarn23]

They are both LGA1366 sockets, so they will be compatible.
As I said in my last post though, I suggested the 980X earlier and you said it was too tiny for your needs.

Well perhaps I did a few incorrect calculations on my part (sorry :() but seems it will barley do the trick. But "barley do the trick" is better than nothing. :)
So all is good and thanks for the help even after some troubles I stumbled across and just to let you know I have given rep points to each of you's for being able to put up with me for such a long time. Thanks.

[saxmaster49]

Haha glad we could help and hope it goes well.

Fyi, that setup has some overclocking room (the ram can go stable up to 2.1 volts tho I would stop around 1.8) and that processor frequently hits 4ghz per core stable.

[crunchie]

Haha glad we could help and hope it goes well.

Fyi, that setup has some overclocking room (the ram can go stable up to 2.1 volts tho I would stop around 1.8) and that processor frequently hits 4ghz per core stable.

From what I have read around different forums though, those Intel chips do not like to go much above 1.65.

cwarn23. No problem :).

[saxmaster49]

The RAM can go up to 2.1 volts (ie ram overclock from 1600 to whatever you can get it to, I would stay under the 1.8 V mark tho), 2.1 on the cpu would fry it. RAM and CPU voltages are separate. One owner posted an overclock reaching 4.42 GHz per core @ 1.38 volts on the cpu. I would not recommend pushing the chip this far but a clock to 4 GHz should be no problem with adequate cooling.

When overclocking try to keep the ram and cpu at a 1:1 ratio to avoid bottle necking.