Multihome Help: LAN & Wireless Connection

[johniselvis]

I have a D-Link wireless router (In Basement), a wireless nic in the PC (My room). Internet works fine. Then I tried to set up a LAN with my Wired D-Link router (In my Room) to connect my two PC's together. Nothing works! When I enable my LAN connection my internet goes down! When I disable the LAN connection the internet comes back! It's like the LAN connection takes over when it’s enabled. I want to have internet access as well as have my own little LAN. Can someone help?
Thanks!

Sorry, I have Windows XP Pro

[bentkey]

You can try this. The wired Dlink in your room needs to not route or give out ip addresses, so plug both PCs in your room into the switch part of the router. In the router configuration, disable DHCP. Then bridge the two network cards in your Internet PC. To do this, select one network connection, hold down the control key and select the other network connection, then right click on them and select "Bridge connections". When your Internet pc is turned on, your other PC should be able to get to the Internet too. It will get it's IP address and dns information from the wireless router going through your other PC.

[tcmullet]

Bentkey, your advice sounds *exactly* like what I'm looking for. But can you please divulge how to do the "bridge" thing using Win98SE? Thanks!

[bentkey]

Sorry, the capability to "Bridge" adaptors was introduced with Windows XP. There is usually another way to set it up through.

[tcmullet]

Yes, I figured there would be. I was hoping *you'd* know the things to change (gateway, subnets, etc.)... for the layman, that is. Or perhaps you can refer me to some online site that clearly tells what to do. (?) I've spent hours and hours searching for such info to no avail. Thanks for whatever help you can give.

(And sorry I'm really stuck on Win98.)

[tcmullet]

I have not been able to find how to do this. Have done much google searching for days trying to find info. Does anyone here have any confident beliefs as to whether it can even be done? Some folks have said it's not possible w/98SE.

[tcmullet]

Okay. I've installed Windows 2000 professional. And I've turned on the proper registry switch (IPEnableRouter). Any ideas on what else needs to be done? I have the IP addresses on the ethernet router static, and the wireless router is still (and needs to be) dynamic. What do I do next?

[timolthy]

Why do you have to have two routers (1 Wireless and 1 wired routers)?

Anyway, try this:

Phoneline/Cable<-->DLS/Cable-modem <--- Wireless router~~~>WirelessPC

Continue:

Wireless_Router<----->Router<---PC1
Router |___PC2

PC1 and PC2 should be able access between them, and both of then can access to Wireless PC. But WirelessPC will not able access to PC1 and PC2

[tcmullet]

Thanks for writing. But no can do. You've got the 2 routers being in the same place. They are not in the same place, just as with the original poster. In my case, my wireless router is in the next building, and my 2+ PCs (and ethernet router) are in this building.

I've been told by someone else that the answer probably lays in entering the correct "route add" commands into a command prompt but noone I know has the ability to do that. "Route add" deals with what's called the Routing Table which I think normally has all it's entries generated automaticly, but which can have manual entries made. All hieroglyphics to me. Even though I'm an ex-programmer (read that programmer obsolete and out of a job). Actually, I think I could do it if there was full documentation somewhere. (Just as with programming languages.) But alas, there appears to be none.

Just a note of clarification: I'm not saying that I absolutely have to have internet access on all computers; I'd be happy to have it only on the one with the wireless nic. My main goal is to not always have to have one of the two nics disabled. Constantly have to disable/reenable one or the other depending on whether I'm interneting or moving files between my 2+ PCs. Internet access on the other PCs would merely be a bonus side effect if it happened.

[timolthy]

I tried to imagine what you want to do but I could not fully understand.

Try this configuration:

Building1:

DLS-Line <---> DSL_Modem<--->Wireless_Router<--PC1-Wired and PC2-Wired

PC1 and PC2 get dynamic IP address 192.168.0.101 and 192.168.0.102 (assuming these IP addresses - could be 192.168.11.101 and 102 depent on router the leases IP addresses)

Building2:

The PC3 with Wireless card and Wired NIC (Windows XP - Don't enable briged)

and PC4 with Wired NIC

Set Wirelesss Card wirelessly associates with Wireless router (within the wireless coverage range) you will get dynamic IP address 192.168.0.103 (assuming)

Set Wireless card properties be shared to Wired NIC (or just be shared I don't remember exactly)

set PC3 Wired NIC Static IP 192.168.3.3, 255.255.255.0 gateway, 192.168.0.103

Connect PC4 wired NIC to PC3 wired NIC (if there is not hub/switch in between then you need crossover cable)

set PC4 wired Nic IP address 192.168.3.4, 255.255.255.0 gateway 192.168.3.3

In PC3 must be on in order for PC4 get to PC3 and internet or to PC 1 and PC2

PC1, PC2, and PC3, accessing/file_sharing between them can be by PC name (recommend a used of IP addresses). PC1 and PC2, can not access to PC 4.

YOU don't need the router in Building two for this configuration.

IF PC3 is Windows 98, try to install or use the sygate software. set wireless NIC and broadband (WAN). For better user, learn how to use sygate. it acts as gateway/router/shared_connection WAN to LAN or PC3 Wireless_NIC1-NIC2 to PC4 or PCx

-----------------------

Hope this help. If the configuration is not what in your intend, then I would suggest you to draw the picture jpg and attach in the thread/post. Or at least use the method and naming PC#, router #, location. DON"T put everything in one or two paragraphs.

[tcmullet]

Thanks, Timolthy, for all your efforts. You've provided some food for thought. Will more carefully define my setup for you. But as I do that offline, I have a question: You said, "Set Wireless card properties be shared to Wired NIC (or just be shared...)." I've gone into the Win2k properties for the wireless card and cannot find anything that looks like a "share" feature. Where is it?

Again, I'm trying to do all this with Windows 2000 Professional on the PC that has both nics.

Will try to describe my network(s) as you did.

[tcmullet]

I'm renumbering my computers according to a scheme I already have.

You had difficult in visualizing my config. Think of it like this: I have 4 PCs on an ethernet network (router). No internet connection. This is in Building 2. In Building 1, I get a DSL line, DSL modem, and Wireless router. For purposes of this discussion, we don't care about the wired-PC in Building 1. I add the wireless card to PC2 and establish internet connection to PC2 which resides in Building 2 (all relevant PCs are in Building 2).

Building1:

DSL-Line <---> DSL-Modem <---> Wireless-Router <---PC5-wired

Building2:

Ethernet-Router <--- PC1-wired, PC2-wired, PC3-wired, PC4-wired

PC2 has 2 nics, 1 wired, 1 wireless. (The wireless one being the one just added.) Here are the IP specs organized by the router they are attached to:

Ethernet router IP=192.168.1.2; DHCP is *off*.
PC1: eth.IP=192.168.1.11; subnet mask=255.255.255.0; gatew=192.168.1.2
PC2: eth.IP=192.168.1.12; subnet mask=255.255.255.0; gatew=192.168.1.2
PC3: eth.IP=192.168.1.13; subnet mask=255.255.255.0; gatew=192.168.1.2
PC4: eth.IP=192.168.1.14; subnet mask=255.255.255.0; gatew=192.168.1.2

Wireless router IP=192.168.1.1; DHCP is *on*.
PC2: wrlessIP=192.168.1.101; subnet mask=255.0.0.0; gatew=192.168.1.1

I wish to leave the DHCP in Wireless router *on*, as well as leave the IP address of the wireless router unchanged.

What you've talked about for "your" PC3 is what I'm trying to do with PC2, that is, PC2 is the one with two nics.

From your example, it seems that you want me to NOT set the gateway of all the 4 PCs to the ethernet router, but instead as follows:

PC1: gatew=192.168.1.12 (the IP for wired nic in PC2)
PC2: gatew=192.168.1.101 (the IP for wireless nic in PC2)
PC3: gatew=192.168.1.12 (the IP for wired nic in PC2)
PC4: gatew=192.168.1.12 (the IP for wired nic in PC2)

Is that what you're suggesting?

My goal and strong preference is for Win98 to be running on all machines. However, I've been told that Win98 (even SE) cannot be made to support 2 nics. So I have become willing to run Win2kProf on PC2. I am not willing to run WinXP on any PC.

Wasn't sure what you meant about file sharing by PC name. Presently, I share files by turning file sharing on in Win98, then marking each drive on each machine as shareable. And I have to assign each computer to the same workgroup name.

If Win2k can be made to implement your solution, I'll use Win2k. However, if Win98 could also be made to do it, I'd still be interested in *that* solution. I did a bit of searching for sygate software. It seems the 4.25MB shn45b851.exe program (Sygate home network) is available, but I had to poke around a good deal to find it. However, they don't sell it anymore, and the product key I found is allegedly only good for 30 days. (I have not installed SHN.) The site on which I learned a bit about SHN shows that it seems to be overkill for my simple needs. But if you say it's absolutely necessary for Win98 to work, then I may do it. But not if expensive, and not if only 30 days.

"Don't put everything in one or two (big) paragraphs." Did I break things up into more readable tiny paragraphs? :)

[timolthy]

Cool, it's now look much better :-)

IF all PCs are Win98 then PC2 needs to have sygate (Last time when I used was 4 years ago).

IF PC2 with Win2k then would probably work (I don't have Win2k, have been upgraded to WinXP)

Let's talk about PC2:
- PC2, Wireless card wirelessly associated to Wireless-Router and got IP address. 192.168.1.101.

- PC2, Set Wireless card to Shared in Network Properties (if can not be shared then you really needs the Sygate. Also if you use Sygate then it can act as DHCP server as welll; therefore, PC1, PC3, and PC4 will not have to use static IP addresses)

- PC2, Set Wired NIC to Static IP 192.168.11.3/255.255.255.0/Gateway:192.168.1.101

MAKE Sure Wired NIC should not be 192.168.1.x

--------------
No need router and Should need the hub/switch. Connect PC1, 2, 3, and 4 to this hub/switch

set these PCs to static IP
PC1: 192.168.11.2/255.255.255.0/Gateway:192.168.11.3
PC3: 192.168.11.4/255.255.255.0/Gateway:192.168.11.3
PC4: 192.168.11.5/255.255.255.0/Gateway:192.168.11.3

DNS: 192.168.1.1, 192.168.11.3

MAKE Sure Wired NIC should not be 192.168.1.x
---------------
If you really want to use the ethernet router:
- Ethernet Router Set WAN to static IP 192.168.11.4/255.255.255.0/Gateway:192.168.11.3, DNS: 192.168.1.1, 192.168.11.3
- Connect PC2 wired to Ethernet Router WAN port
- Connect PC1,3, and 4 to Ethernet LAN port

The PC1, 3, and 4 will get IP addresses from this ethernet router - MAKE Sure that they should not be either 192.168.11.x or 192.168.1.x Or saying this way, ethernet router should not lease the IP addresses of 192.168.11.x or 192.168.1.x

------------------

I am sure this configuration and settings will work! And note that PC5 will not able to access to PC1, 3 and 4.

>Wasn't sure what you meant about file sharing by PC name.

If you PC1 likes to access folder that shared from PC3, then use \\192.168.11.4\shared instead of \\PC3_name\shared.

Sometimes, using all 192.168.1.x or 192.168.11.x would easily cause confuse. Best way is one of he network use 10.x.x.x

Good LUCK!

[tcmullet]

PC2, Set Wireless card to Shared in Network Properties

Thanks. Will try all this tonight. But the share thing is bothering me. I think I found a link that may shed some insight on Win2k. Could you please look at this link and tell me what points are relevant and how they apply? (I see Win2k screen shots involving ICS which I thought I was supposed to stay away from.)

http://www.networklab.co.uk/cmodem/win2kics.html

[tcmullet]

Timolthy,

Have done extensive experimentation, and have some startling results. Partially good, partially bad.

But first... On advice of a friend, I've recently shifted my posture toward (almost) always using static IP addresses. At the very least, I want the PCs on my ethernet router to have static IP addresses. I realize this means that I need to turn DHCP *off* in the router. I say this as you made references to "wanting" to avoid static IP addresses. No, I now prefer to keep them static (except in the wireless connection) so that I have control and don't have to worry about somebody (DHCP) making changes without my knowledge. (I'll put a note on each PC stating the IP address.)

When you say "No need router and Should need the hub/switch", I say, Yes I need the router as the router *acts* as a hub, but with more intelligence. There use to be things called hubs which were cheaper than routers. Now routers are cheap, and I wouldn't know where to buy a hub. (I'm sure you know all this better than me.) In any case, I've always used the router *as* a hub, formerly with DHCP on, but now, with DHCP off (and static IP addresses for the PCs' ethernet adapters).

So I'm using the router, but still using static IP addresses. To review my settings (changed in light of your last post):

PC1:192.168.11.2/255.255.255.0/Gatew:192.168.1.101
PC3:192.168.11.4/255.255.255.0/Gatew:192.168.1.101
PC4:192.168.11.5/255.255.255.0/Gatew:192.168.1.101

And for all 3 of those I add DNS (DNS Server Search Order): 192.168.1.1, 192.168.11.3

(The .1.1 points to my wireless router, and the .11.3 to PC2's wired adapter, in my understanding. Not that I understand what "DNS" is or what those 2 addresses are used for.)

For PC2 wired:
PC2:192.168.11.3/255.255.255.0/Gatew:192.168.1.101

I notice this follows the same pattern as the other 3 PCs *except* I don't add the two DNS items.

For PC2 wireless:
I allowed the wireless router (with DHCP on) to continue to supply IP 192.168.1.101. (This is my one exception to using static IP addresses everywhere else.)

I have tried this with Win2k on PC2, and have had very limited success. If you'll look at that link in my last post, you'll see what it looks like to "Enable internet connection sharing for this connection" on the wireless connection in Win2k. You'll also see that it then forces my *ethernet* adapter to 192.168.0.1(!!) Between trying to use that as is, between reseting it to 192.168.11.3 (as you prescribed), and between adding a gateway back into it, there were a few times that I could bring up the web *and* get to other computers (PC1, PC3). But in those rare cases, when I rebooted, one or the other would not work. I even tried leaving PC2 at 192.168.0.1, and changing PC1's 2nd DNS to 192.168.0.1. I'm sure I tried other things, all to no avail. Under some circumstances, I could access internet, under others, I could access other PCs, and rarely (and non-permanently) both.

Here's the very strange thing. I made the changes according to your pattern to PC2, Windows 98SE. And it worked!!! At least partially. I can now consistently and repeatedly start machines up, get on the web (on PC2) and access files on all the machines *from* all the machines. *** Thank you ***

But I still cannot open a browser on PC1 or PC3 and get to the web. Are you going to tell me that's the case where I must get a Sygate type networking program?

I tried tinkering with the trialware. I *was* able to get PC3 to pull up web pages, but PC1 could not. In any case, it looks like SHN (Sygate Home Network) is no longer for sale, and the trial is only good for 30 days. Can you think of any other way to get the web access on PC2 shared over to the other PCs?

A couple things still puzzle me about your config.

In my earlier setup, I had set the gateways to point to my ethernet router whose IP address is 192.168.1.2. None of your suggested values includes a reference to that. Instead it makes reference to the wireless adapter! Doesn't my router need to be referenced somehow, in order for the PCs to see each other? (Obviously not, because they *do* see each other, but I'm wondering why.)

Another puzzle/problem: Both my routers (wired and wireless) came with a default IP address of 192.168.1.1. I changed the wired router's address to 192.168.1.2 to avoid human and computer confusion. That's why my earlier detail showed gateways of that value. And I could go into the wired router's control program by entering http://192.168.1.2. It would pull up a screen which would allow me to enter a userid and password, and change router features. As it is now (using your config), I can't get into the router to save my life. How can I do that? Do I have to reset a PC's wired config to some old value? (Of course I can totally reset the router to factory value with it's reset button, but I want to manually set things via the browser.)

You said, "If you really want to use the ethernet router...". Your procedure involved plugging PC2 into the WAN port. This is intriguing. It appears that it would allow me to add a 5th computer to the ethernet network. This would be great, but I'd still like to keep all wired adapters with *static* IP addresses. Can I still do that with this method?

You said "Ethernet Router Set WAN to static IP 192.168.11.4..." Are you referring to a setting in the router's programming (which I cannot get to now)? Is this different from the router's IP address (which is now 192.168.1.2)?

(I greatly appreciate your patience with me!)

One last item:

If I get everything hooked up with PC2 in WAN port and other PCs into the LAN ports (total 5 PCs), can I replace one of the PCs with another wired router, so I can add the 5th PC *and* a 6th one to the 2nd wired router?

Can you suggest what static IP addresses I should use in the PCs I attach to the 2nd router (the router that's plugged into a LAN port of the 1st wired router)? And would I have to change something in the 2nd router's memory other than turning DHCP off?

Again, thanks so much for all your help!!! :) :) :)

[timolthy]

Let's go back to router. If you intend to use this router with its DCHP Server off, then it would act as a Hub/switch. Can you turn off also the WAN off? If you do then it's consider as a hub/switch. What does the router do, I believe that you can also search that in google: It does as you set in PC2, 1 NIC (out), 1 NIC (in), the NIC out reaches to Internet (in short), the NIC (in) is connected to hub and all other NICs/PCs that connect to this NIC (hub) to access to the Internet via NIC (in) then travel via NIC (out).

If you do need use the Ethernet router that using WAN port as (out) and using LAn ports as LAN, even the LAN ports has DCHP Srv off and PCs that connect to this router in LAN ports have static IP address:

DSL_Modem <--- Wireless_Router1~~~> <~~~Wireless-NIC_Router2_Wired-NIC--> <----WAN-Port_Enthernet-Router3_LANports--> <----PCs-NICs.
what it means, the PCs-NICs will go to three router before reaching Internet.

- IF the PC1, 2, 3, and PC4 all using static IP and connect to Ethernet router, and the router has DCHP srv disabled, then Ethernet router is not a router and it's as a hub:

DSL_Modem <--- Wireless_Router1~~~> <~~~Wireless-NIC_Router2_Wired-NIC--> <----Hub--> <----PCs-NICs.

----
After PC2 Wireless NIC be set to share and Wired NIC be forced to use 192.168.0.1/255.255.255.0: Must use Gateway 192.168.1.101

Then All PC1,3, and 4, shall used 192.168.0.x/255.255.255.0/Gway:192.168.1.101. DNS:192.168.1.1, 192.168.0.1. Anyway from PC1, 3,4 try to ping the IP address that you intend to put in DNS. if it reaches there then put it in, if no then don't bother.

Good Luck!

[tcmullet]

Before I try all this, could you please tell me what I have to do to get back into my router's feature-control area? I used to enter http://192.168.1.2, but that doesn't work now.

(Just to review, both routers, wireless and wired, came with an IP of 192.168.1.1. I recently changed the wired to 192.168.1.2. I was able to get into it using 1.2 until the recent changes you suggested.)

[timolthy]

Reset your router, there should be a reset button on device. It will bring back to router default configuration. Look at their website, it's normally, 192.168.x.1. After reset then connect one of you PC (with DHCP client) to LAN port on router. Check what IP does PC get, let's say the PC get 192.168.10.100 then http://192.168.10.1.

Again, if both routers have 192.168.1.x then 100% will not work. If you can not get the hub/switch for building 2 where the PC1,3,and 4 at, then don't bother going further.

YOU definitely have to set up as I suggested in the last few posts. That is most effective way for what you have!

Good luck.

[tcmullet]

Hello.

A year and a half later, I'm back here. I ended up scrapping the wireless setup and having DSL directly into my wired router.

But now I've had to move and accomodate to someone else's environment. And I'm back to having all my computers being on 1 wired router with no internet connected to that router. One computer has a wireless adapter in it, and gets internet from a wireless router elsewhere in the house.

Am back to the scenario where I can't have both netword cards enabled at the same time. Each works fine as long as the other is disabled, so I'm constantly switching back and forth.

Unlike last year, I have now installed Windows XP, SP2 on the machine that has the wireless adapter. I have looked and looked and looked for any info anywhere as to how to get that "bridge" thing to work (for this topology), but to no avail. Any guess-work attempts have failed. It's probably very easy, but the process escapes me. Can anyone please tell me what to do? I'm rather surprised this doesn't come up more often.

[Bench]

If by 'bridging' you're referring to Internet Connection Sharing (ICS), then click that link for some guides on how to use the ICS which comes with Windows. (What ICS actually does is turn the computer into a router.. although its most popular application is for sharing an internet connection)

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "can't have both network cards enable at the same time"? Do you mean that the hardware physically conflicts (As in, some kind of problem relating to the drivers/motherboard/hardware/BIOS/firmware/etc) ... or had you set them up to use conflicting network addresses?

If the network cards are working fine, and you've set them up with 2 different IP addresses on the same 'logical' network, then the answer to getting them working is a case of changing the network portion of the IP address.
(My interpretation of some of the problems you experienced last year would be that you had multiple networks using the same network address - this is something that is guaranteed to cause all devices and computers on the networks to get confused)

Out of curiousity, what Settings have you set for each adapter? namely, IP address & Subnet mask?

[Fest3er]

...

Building1:

DSL-Line <---> DSL-Modem <---> Wireless-Router <---PC5-wired

Building2:

...

I'm late to the party, but thought I'd add my tuppence.

It sounds like you might want a wireless link between building 1 and building 2. A Linksys WRT54G or any gateway/fw supported by DD-WRT (www.dd-wrt.com) will handle this task quite nicely. I set up something like this at my church; whenever they turn on the client router, those PCs are quickly connected to the rest of the network.

Using two wireless routers, with one configured to connect as a client to the other, you can have all systems connected to the internet. See the attached JPG.

N