Newbie needs help building a server - Page 2

[jbennet]

Is that a tower or a rackmount, because if it is a tower, I think I know which one it is.

you could get a conversion kit (baically rails + new front door) to convert between the 1600 (tower) and 1600 (rack). I had a tower.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

Okay, first off, I think you really need to take a chill pill. There's a big difference between picking apart someone's post to attack factual information that they provide (the rules here permit this), and going out of one's way to insult someone on a forum (this is against the rules).

I've seen both a lot throughout the past, and I can assure you that this is mainly the case of the former. Now, I'm not saying that the information you provided was correct, nor am I saying that it's incorrect. I'm not a hardware person, so I'm not qualified to comment on most of the information provided by either party. On the other hand, I'm more inclined to believe what DimaYasny has said, due to the fact that you've stopped refuting the information he's given you, and resorted to whining about how he's being mean and attacking you. Not to mention that your credibility has already been damaged with your claim about 64 bit computing and its respective memory.

When this first began, it was simply a challenge of factual information, which I was fine with. However, it seems like it's drifting into more of an insult-slinging competition, and if this goes on for any longer, I'm afraid this thread will have to be closed. To everyone here: you're welcome to continue debating factual information, however, but please keep it (relatively) pleasant.

Well, I believed it was an attack by how it was worded, which I still do. I will chill out, because someone finally did somthing about it. I do not agree with you 100%, but I will settle with what was said.

Thank you, with needed to be done. I do believe this is the light at the end of the tunnel.

To DimaYasny, I hope this is over, and I hope we never quarrel again.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

you could get a conversion kit (baically rails + new front door) to convert between the 1600 (tower) and 1600 (rack). I had a tower.

I liked that server, until I had to replace a fan on it. :( Other than that, I would recommend one.

[John A]

>I do not agree with you 100%, but I will settle with what was said.

Good. :)

[PirateTUX]

I liked that server, until I had to replace a fan on it. :( Other than that, I would recommend one.

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! You don't need to drop $10k for something that will do the trick. If you can live with a machine that's maybe one or two generations old, you can save yourself a load of cash.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

If I where to recommend a older server, I would recommend a Dell 2500 series. I have the Dual P3-1000mhz Generatio, and it is a beast.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! You don't need to drop $10k for something that will do the trick. If you can live with a machine that's maybe one or two generations old, you can save yourself a load of cash.

lol, this was my point orginally before the huge arguement. ;)

[DimaYasny]

To DimaYasny, I hope this is over, and I hope we never quarrel again.

no problem :) but I will correct you again if I have to, you know :)

[jbennet]

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! You don't need to drop $10k for something that will do the trick. If you can live with a machine that's maybe one or two generations old, you can save yourself a load of cash.

exactly. Heres what my old pentium 2 looked like

http://womendivorce.com/ebay/compaq/compaq-proliant-1600-1.jpg

(just a generic picture)

it ran 24/7 for years. Only got rid of it in 2008. Rebooted less than 20 times in its lifetime (it ran windows nt4 as a PDC for my home LAN hence reboots needed for secrity updates)

A 1ghz pentium 3 and 512 ram is fine for running a small linux web server too. I used to run my clans website off one. (dont go less thn 512 ram or mysql gets problems)

[PirateTUX]

exactly. Heres what my old pentium 2 looked like

http://womendivorce.com/ebay/compaq/compaq-proliant-1600-1.jpg

(just a generic picture)

it ran 24/7 for years. Only got rid of it in 2008. Rebooted less than 20 times in its lifetime (it ran windows nt4 as a PDC for my home LAN hence reboots needed for secrity updates)

A 1ghz pentium 3 and 512 ram is fine for running a small linux web server too. I used to run my clans website off one. (dont go less thn 512 ram or mysql gets problems)

It always amazes me how very little machine Linux and Apache really require, as long as you're not expecting a really high volume of hits on your site. I'm running Fedora 7 and Apache/PHP on a 800MHz Pentium II with 512mb of memory. Sure, it boots a little slow, but you NEVER have to reboot Linux, and once it's up, it's solid.

Most of what was being argued about on this thread is stuff that you don't really need to worry about just starting out. The reality is, when just getting started, the more simple, the better. Just make sure you've got backups covered, 'cos that can end things really quick. Other than that, "Cheap but Solid" should really be your mantra.

[jbennet]

fedora 7 is pretty slow

download the debian netinstall cd (~180mb) and choose only to download "base system" at install time, then follow my tutorial here:

http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread78131.html

youll get a LAMP server in under 400mb - boots in about 35 seconds if you do it my way as it installs no bloat

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

exactly. Heres what my old pentium 2 looked like

http://womendivorce.com/ebay/compaq/compaq-proliant-1600-1.jpg

(just a generic picture)

it ran 24/7 for years. Only got rid of it in 2008. Rebooted less than 20 times in its lifetime (it ran windows nt4 as a PDC for my home LAN hence reboots needed for secrity updates)

A 1ghz pentium 3 and 512 ram is fine for running a small linux web server too. I used to run my clans website off one. (dont go less thn 512 ram or mysql gets problems)

That dell I was talkinga bout Here is the specs.
Dell 2500 Series Tower

http://www.mcbia.com/auction/randy/Dell-PE-2500-4.jpg

Two Pentium 3 1000mhz Processors
2048mb of ECC PC-133 RAM
4x36gb 10k scsi drives to make 1 72gb partitions mirrored in raid 1.
Dell 19inch 256gb Scsi array (External)
Windows Advanced Server 2000

Running Services:
Doman Name Lookup
Domain Controller, (For only 3 computers)
HTTP and HTTPS, Apache and IIS
FTP
SMTP (Running, but not acting like it should)
Ventrilo Server
Team Speak Server
Mysql
PHP

With 7 reboots, 5 from hardware upgrade, and 2 from powerloss. (1 was from me adding a UPS, and the other one from a faulty wiring circuit.)

I have a clone of that server, (Exact model)

Running:
Red Hat 9

Dell 2500 Series Tower
Two Pentium 3 1000mhz Processors
1024mb of ECC PC-133 RAM
2x 36gb drive, (no raid)

My Pride and Joy
Dell Poweredge 2650

http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/b/1/11995/11995042_DELL_2650.jpg

Dual 2.8ghz Xeons
2048mb of ECC DDR-400
2x 74gb scsi in RAID 1
Windows Server 2003
Dual Gigabit, with some load balencing working, and some needing to be configured.

I payed about 450 bucks for all three of these servers at a HAMfest or a superfest.

The best one to hit is in Dayton, Ohio and it is usually May 16,17, and 18th. Google it and buy a ticket, its somthing you will not want to miss. Don't forget the checkbook.
(Not responsible for any partner serperation for giving this advice ;) )

[jbennet]

IIS on windows 2000 = unsecure by default

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

IIS on windows 2000 = unsecure by default

Very true, especially when someone uses the SMTP protocool loopback to flood the server from the inside... :(

Apache is my first choice

[jbennet]

just make sure to tighten the service, reg and drive permisions, and reduce the surface area / lock down IIS.

win2k by default gives the eveeryone group write access to the root of the C drive LOL

[DimaYasny]

Very true, especially when someone uses the SMTP protocool loopback to flood the server from the inside... :(

Apache is my first choice

IIS and SMTP?

[PirateTUX]

fedora 7 is pretty slow

download the debian netinstall cd (~180mb) and choose only to download "base system" at install time, then follow my tutorial here:

http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread78131.html

youll get a LAMP server in under 400mb - boots in about 35 seconds if you do it my way as it installs no bloat

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm going to stick with Fedora. I've got nothing against Debian at all... heard really good things about it... but I'm so used to where everything is located on Fedora that I don't really have time to make the switch. Plus we're already pretty firmly entrenched. I might look at it when I've got a bit more time, tho... thanks again!

[DimaYasny]

debian is much more convenient when it comes down to PERL modules installation. yum lacks the apt ability to install those, so in redhat like distros you have to go through CPAN to install needed modules, and CPAN isn't good at satisfying dependencies

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

IIS and SMTP?

SMTP inside IIS

[jbennet]

yeah i just personally prefer debians stability

[PirateTUX]

yeah i just personally prefer debians stability

Do you feel that Debian is more stable that Fedora? I'm not poking at you, or trying to start a distro-war... I'm honestly really curious. Is there any particular reason why you feel that way? Of course, I'm really interested in working with the most stable platform available. Please inform me!!!

[jbennet]

fedora = testing ground for redhat enterprise edition (business distribution) . It uses cutting edge software and has a short build cycle (5-12 months) whereas debian is supported for years, and only the most stable, well tested packages get in. Debian is similar in this way to redhat enterprise.

[PatrickV]

Hello, my name is Patrick.
I see you need some server help. I am a server administrator my self. The thing is to find a role for your sever. now i see you want a website setup. I would not suggest to use the server for the people in the offices. it is not standard practice. that is what is webserver are for. webserver is a role for a server. so i suggest you buy some web hosting for the website part. now for a server for the office you need to know how may computer are their. their is a lot of things that you need look out when setting up a server. the best thing is go and see a computer dealer like dell or hp and ask qusetion and your requirements for the server you want. They help you better to choose the right one

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

Hello, my name is Patrick.
I see you need some server help. I am a server administrator my self. The thing is to find a role for your sever. now i see you want a website setup. I would not suggest to use the server for the people in the offices. it is not standard practice. that is what is webserver are for. webserver is a role for a server. so i suggest you buy some web hosting for the website part. now for a server for the office you need to know how may computer are their. their is a lot of things that you need look out when setting up a server. the best thing is go and see a computer dealer like dell or hp and ask qusetion and your requirements for the server you want. They help you better to choose the right one

This is good advice, Dell or HP, or any computer company for that matter, is very good at communicating to you what they think you need, but beware sometimes you might get a bad apple who just wants your money.

Questions to ask:
What kind of Hard drive interface does that server use?

What kind of processor and speed is that server?

What are my operating system options and support opion on that server?

What are the delivery and/or setup charges?

Good advice Patrick! ;)

[jbennet]

also, normally i say to never get the dell warranty. BUT in the case of servers GET IT.l

[DimaYasny]

yup, and if you get the good warranty - all you need is basic IT knowledge - the supporters on the phone are VERY professional.

[jbennet]

yes

also look into OS support. A real backoffice server will probably make use of paid-for MS / Novell / Redhat / IBM / whatever support

[DimaYasny]

usually OS support is provided by the OEM vendor

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

usually OS support is provided by the OEM vendor

*If it is OEM software. It isn't always.

[jbennet]

e.g Volume Licencing