Newbie needs help building a server

[RivetLikeWhoa]

So, a friend and I have offered to help his dad out with his company. He wants a website built and set-up for him, and he needs servers to run to site off of, do dispatching, general archiving, networking the whole office together. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on hardware for the server computer. Any help will be appreciated.

[DimaYasny]

depends on the workload of the server (or servers, it is always a good idea to dedicate machines to specific roles) get a brandname server like Dell, HP, IBM or Sun.

the workload depends on the server OS, amount and load of the services and amount of users and data

[PirateTUX]

I totally agree with DimaYasny... it completely depends on what you're going to have the server doing, and what sort of volume load you're expecting it to handle.

Brand name is always a plus, if even just to know you have an 800 number to call if/when something goes a-miss. I personally run IBM server, and LOVE them. They're all about 10 years old and still running strong.

Hope that helps!

[chris5126]

sun servers or dell servers are pretty cheap but you do you need straight line speed or do you want multiplue process runing at once?

for example if your running a database behind the website with multiple request from users then straight line speed isnt needed and a mutli core processor will better suit your needs and could run multiple requests at once.

Also how much do you want to spend?? its all about the money lol!!!!

[PirateTUX]

Good points... it really is all about the money. With that in mind, you might also investigate getting ahold of a multi-core CPU'd PC to use as a server. In a lot of cases, a "non-server" PC can perform just as well as, if not better than, a "server" for a LOT less money. Basically, you're not paying for redundancy. However, you can get a lot of the same features in a plain-Jane PC (RAID, high-speed HD's, tons of memory, multi-core processing) that you can in a server. And if something does fail, it's a LOT cheaper to fix than a "server".

We run Fedora 7 as our server platform, including our LAMP setup and MySQL database. It's true, we do run this stuff on what would be considered a "server", but the fact is, it would run just as well as a server on non-server hardware. We just happened to have a small group of old server hardware available.

Good luck!

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

So, a friend and I have offered to help his dad out with his company. He wants a website built and set-up for him, and he needs servers to run to site off of, do dispatching, general archiving, networking the whole office together. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on hardware for the server computer. Any help will be appreciated.

From what I understand, you want a server to: Store Files, Web Serving, and FTP.

That to me sounds low grade server, or a mid-grade workstation with an server class operating system.

I would recommend for this

Core2Duo (For smaller appications a Xeon is overkill)
1-3gb of Ram (Unless you want 64bit, then 4gb)
At least a 74gb Scsi Disk or, if possible, a 320gb sata drive.
Look for Windows Server 200X (Not 2000) [x = 3,5, or 8]
Gigabit ethernet

If you are wanting somthing with a little more kick for a server:

Xeon (2.4ghz +)
4gb of ECC ram
You WILL need a 64bit copy of Server 2008
2x 74gb Scsi Disk (in mirror raid)
Dual Gigabit Ethernet
Name brand Server (Dell, HP, Sun)

For networking:

I would recommend a Cisco 2126XM, but you will need a CCNA to operate it.
HP 24-port networking switch, ^ for use with that Cisco Router

-or-

Linksys Buissness Grade Router
Linksys 8 to 16port Gigabit switch

I manage server servers, and I am in my MCSE and CCNA training, if you have any questions, or need spefic models.
Good luck, my friend
-Keith

[DimaYasny]

From what I understand, you want a server to: Store Files, Web Serving, and FTP.
That to me sounds low grade server, or a mid-grade workstation with an server class operating system.

I have recently set up a whole cluster of very high end (Dell PE6800) servers with a very expensive storage rack attached to them, only for file serving, web and ftp.

I would recommend for this

Core2Duo (For smaller appications a Xeon is overkill)

I thought we were talking about providing services, not running applications

1-3gb of Ram (Unless you want 64bit, then 4gb)

so a 64bit system can't run on 2Gb of RAM?

At least a 74gb Scsi Disk or, if possible, a 320gb sata drive.

74? and this is supposed to be a file server? OR sata? do you know the difference?
and who, in 2008, will buy SCSI anyway?

Look for Windows Server 200X (Not 2000) [x = 3,5, or 8]

never heard of windows 2005, please enlighten me

Gigabit ethernet

to serve files to the web - no need for that.

You WILL need a 64bit copy of Server 2008

why?

2x 74gb Scsi Disk (in mirror raid)

and no mention of a proper raid controller. and SCSI again...

Dual Gigabit Ethernet

why dual?

I would recommend a Cisco 2126XM, but you will need a CCNA to operate it.

not really. all you need to do is know what you want it to do and learn the IOS syntax. or get it set up once, and leave it to run.

HP 24-port networking switch, ^ for use with that Cisco Router

why not a cisco switch?

I manage server servers, and I am in my MCSE and CCNA training, if you have any questions, or need spefic models.

sorry mate, sounds like you need to finish those studies first

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

I have recently set up a whole cluster of very high end (Dell PE6800) servers with a very expensive storage rack attached to them, only for file serving, web and ftp.

I thought we were talking about providing services, not running applications
(1)

so a 64bit system can't run on 2Gb of RAM?
(2)

74? and this is supposed to be a file server? OR sata? do you know the difference?
and who, in 2008, will buy SCSI anyway?
(3)

never heard of windows 2005, please enlighten me
(4)

to serve files to the web - no need for that.
(5)

why?
(6)

and no mention of a proper raid controller. and SCSI again...
(6A)

why dual?
(7)

not really. all you need to do is know what you want it to do and learn the IOS syntax. or get it set up once, and leave it to run.
(8)

why not a cisco switch?
(9)

sorry mate, sounds like you need to finish those studies first

(final)
OK Smart-alick, I made 1 typo.

I have recently set up a whole cluster of very high end (Dell PE6800) servers with a very expensive storage rack attached to them, only for file serving, web and ftp.

If you would like to waste your money, or your employer's more power to you.
Ohhh, an expensive rack? That makes you PRO!

1. FTP and HTTP ARE services, you have an MCSE, you should know this.
2. NO a 64bit system CANNOT run 2gb of ram UNLESS it is enabled in the processor, (he said NEWBIE server, so use NEWBIE advice)
3. Scsi is your HIGH data flow, like databases, note the 10k or 15k speed. Sata is a serial connection. 7.2k
4. Typo, mybad
5. GIGABIT is expandable, 10/100 is NOT, he also said NETWORK SERVER! (Expandability)
6. Raid is for BACKUP and DATA redudancy, so you do what you want if you want your data lost.
6A. A name brand server HAS a raid controller in it, if not Adaptec.
7. LOAD BALANCING, for those IT people who like there server to be accessible! (expandability)
8. Because, its not a GUI and he doesnt know the syntax, and maybe he doesn't want to learn it.
9. Because HP has a LIFETIME warrenty on there 24's and Cisco switches are not need unless you VLAN
10. A cerfication is a peice of paper, it means what it took to get it...nothing, I must-likely know more than you already, at least I don't act like a HOT shot and correcting people's posts.

Finally.
If you had payed attention to what he said, he was helping out his buddy's dad, do you think he has a million dollar budget? I can't just don't understand some people, and your one of them. We are trying to help someone, not bicker over who has more than the other. if you gonna be a pesimest, go find somewhere else to do it. THIS IS A COMMUNITY NOT A DEBATE! You need some training for your many degrees in COLLABERATION. Try a psychology major.

If you want more, please do not be afraid to ask.

For the RivitLikeWhoa, I would hesitate to take advice from DimaYasny, because he obviously wants to fight in the fourm, instead of helping you.

[John A]

NO a 64bit system CANNOT run 2gb of ram UNLESS it is enabled in the processor, (he said NEWBIE server, so use NEWBIE advice)

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

Original Statment

I can assure you is that this is complete and utter rubbish.

Please define your statement for me, so that I can merit it.

After Editing

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Reasons I say this :
32bit CPU's will not run 64 bit code without AMD 64bit or EM64
2048 will run with 64bit enabled

Please do not correct me without a probable reason.

[John A]

>Please define your statement for me, so that I can merit it.
They mean the same thing. Occasionally I change my mind how I want to formulate my post.

>Please do not correct me without a probable reason.
How about this, I currently run a 64 bit operating system on 2 gigabytes of RAM, no extra configuration or "enabling in the processor" necessary.

[DimaYasny]

(final)
OK Smart-alick, I made 1 typo.

no, you have been talking about things you obviously do not understand.

If you would like to waste your money, or your employer's more power to you.
Ohhh, an expensive rack? That makes you PRO!

no, 15 years in IT make me a pro. and the fact that I do deal with high end systems, shows I'm pro enough to be trusted to touch million dollar systems.

1. FTP and HTTP ARE services, you have an MCSE, you should know this.

exactly. and you were talking about applications.

2. NO a 64bit system CANNOT run 2gb of ram UNLESS it is enabled in the processor,(he said NEWBIE server, so use NEWBIE advice)

64bit systems can run on any valid amount of memory. I have set up RHEL5.1 x64 on 512Mb blade server yesterday, and it works fine

3. Scsi is your HIGH data flow, like databases, note the 10k or 15k speed. Sata is a serial connection. 7.2k

right. so you never heard of what RPM means? because the figures you have pointed out are RPM. and there are SATA disks out there that work at 10 and 15kRPM.

go on wikipedia, and read about the real difference in speed between SCSI, SATA, IDE and SAS.

5. GIGABIT is expandable, 10/100 is NOT, he also said NETWORK SERVER! (Expandability)

didn't see the word anywhere in the o/p.

6. Raid is for BACKUP and DATA redudancy, so you do what you want if you want your data lost.

neither. raid is for spindle spreading and disk redundancy.

6A. A name brand server HAS a raid controller in it, if not Adaptec.

no. HP have HP raid controllers, Dell has PERC and CERC controllers (based on LSI, not Adaptec) and IBM has it's own, depending on the model.
and those controllers EVERYWHERE are optional.

7. LOAD BALANCING, for those IT people who like there server to be accessible! (expandability)

to keep servers accessible, you need QoS or HA clustering.
I suppose what you mean here, and have no idea how to say or implement the idea is NIC Teaming.

8. Because, its not a GUI and he doesnt know the syntax, and maybe he doesn't want to learn it.

have you asked? maybe he does. and the other option was to have it set up once and left alone.
also, there are quite a few good routers out there, which do have a GUI. even the very high end ones, like CheckPoint NG.

9. Because HP has a LIFETIME warrenty on there 24's and Cisco switches are not need unless you VLAN

so HP can't do VLANs? now you're just being funny.

10. A cerfication is a peice of paper, it means what it took to get it...nothing, I must-likely know more than you already, at least I don't act like a HOT shot and correcting people's posts.

we are here to help people out, not mislead them. that's why I corrected your post.

Finally.
If you had payed attention to what he said, he was helping out his buddy's dad, do you think he has a million dollar budget? I can't just don't understand some people, and your one of them. We are trying to help someone, not bicker over who has more than the other. if you gonna be a pesimest, go find somewhere else to do it. THIS IS A COMMUNITY NOT A DEBATE! You need some training for your many degrees in COLLABERATION. Try a psychology major.

don't tell me what to do, and I won't tell you where to go, OK?

everything I've said can be easily found on the internet, to verify.

[DimaYasny]

windows server 2008 system requirements: x64 and x32 are the same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2008#System_requirements
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/system-requirements.aspx

back to school, eh? ;)

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

>Please define your statement for me, so that I can merit it.
They mean the same thing. Occasionally I change my mind how I want to formulate my post.

>Please do not correct me without a probable reason.
How about this, I currently run a 64 bit operating system on 2 gigabytes of RAM, no extra configuration or "enabling in the processor" necessary.

I stand corrected on the 64-bit issue. I apologize for my in-coheriance.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

no, you have been talking about things you obviously do not understand.

(Again, unless you say what is wrong, your a kid with a stick poking a turtle.)

no, 15 years in IT make me a pro. and the fact that I do deal with high end systems, shows I'm pro enough to be trusted to touch million dollar systems.

(You ignored what I said. He must likely does NOT have a million dollar budget. Good for you, but for simple buissness with a simple budget, simple equipment is needed. I apologize for the retaliation)

exactly. and you were talking about applications.
(Apache Server is an application, I am assuming he wants the eaisest and cheapest solution)

64bit systems can run on any valid amount of memory. I have set up RHEL5.1 x64 on 512Mb blade server yesterday, and it works fine
(Read last post, I stand corrected)

right. so you never heard of what RPM means? because the figures you have pointed out are RPM. and there are SATA disks out there that work at 10 and 15kRPM.

(Rotation Per Minute, Faster RPM higher access rate; the faster the header can read the plater. In the consumer market, and I have never heard of a 15k sata drive. (10k = Raptor by Western Digital, I know I have one, they need exteme cooling, and that is why I neglected to mention it.)

go on wikipedia, and read about the real difference in speed between SCSI, SATA, IDE and SAS.

(Parallel vs Serial Connections, Shared Ground vs Mono-pathing, SAS I have never researched, but I will get right on that.)

didn't see the word anywhere in the o/p.

(I said that I was wrong about server 2005, but Microsoft usually releases there products on the same year. [Example Visual Studio 2005, 2008, .Net, etc)

neither. raid is for spindle spreading and disk redundancy.

(This statement is partially correct. Disks store data, disks need to be redundant. Stripes spread data. Mirrors of Stripes are RAID, therefore you can Mirror a Raided stripe.)

no. HP have HP raid controllers, Dell has PERC and CERC controllers (based on LSI, not Adaptec) and IBM has it's own, depending on the model.
and those controllers EVERYWHERE are optional.

(It was an example, not a list of raid controllers.)

to keep servers accessible, you need QoS or HA clustering.
I suppose what you mean here, and have no idea how to say or implement the idea is NIC Teaming.

(Yes, as in multi-pathed networks, the server or router can do this. The vocab is what you learn in your certification, however it is very difficult, I understand.)

have you asked? maybe he does. and the other option was to have it set up once and left alone.
also, there are quite a few good routers out there, which do have a GUI. even the very high end ones, like CheckPoint NG.

(I reconize Cisco as the best, because of my CCNA training, and because most of them are trusted with the integrety of the internet. I am not aware of there competitiors, but you are. Please give him more options on the subject if you would like to.)

so HP can't do VLANs? now you're just being funny.

(I am not being funny, but I do not know how to configure a HP VLAN, nor do I know how to get it to work with a Cisco portocool, if even need a seperate one.)

we are here to help people out, not mislead them. that's why I corrected your post.

(I do not feel I was misleading them, and greater definition can be achieved without a personal attack. I do believe you where using the wrong tact to approach the subject of my flawed logic.)

don't tell me what to do, and I won't tell you where to go, OK?

(I again was comment on your tact of the subject that you took. Don't tell me to go to school, which you just did, and do not act like you know everything, because no one does. All my information is an opinion untill proven fact. Prove it wrong or right with a citation, or counter-citation.)

everything I've said can be easily found on the internet, to verify.

(Not everyone who reads this post wants to research it. That is why we are helping them out)

The reason I am acting as I am is, because you are using direct attack, psychology. Collaberation, is correcting someone without directly causing conflict. Please try to use less offensive statements, and I will return the favor. An example of this is "back to school, eh?"
or "sorry mate, sounds like you need to finish those studies first," I do not feel that is a fair statement, since I own most of my servers, routers, and computer, and I actively test what I learn. I am misinterprited something please do tell me, but tact is everything.

I do believe I am right in this case, but your opinion matters to me. So
"You clearly have no idea what you're talking about."
doesn't mean anything. Provide a counter-example and I will check my sources, and agree or disagree.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

>Please define your statement for me, so that I can merit it.
They mean the same thing. Occasionally I change my mind how I want to formulate my post.

I apologize if you veiwed that as an attack, it was not meant to be. I was showing that you made credit to change your logic, and display that to everyone. (Please change my post if you have an issue with it, I will not protest this.)

[DimaYasny]

(Again, unless you say what is wrong, your a kid with a stick poking a turtle.)

you have received an entire list of things you were wrong about.

(You ignored what I said. He must likely does NOT have a million dollar budget. Good for you, but for simple buissness with a simple budget, simple equipment is needed. I apologize for the retaliation)

yes, that is right. that is why in all the posts before yours, nobody gave full recommendations, asking for requirement details instead.

64bit systems can run on any valid amount of memory. I have set up RHEL5.1 x64 on 512Mb blade server yesterday, and it works fine
(Read last post, I stand corrected)

good :)

(Rotation Per Minute, Faster RPM higher access rate; the faster the header can read the plater. In the consumer market, and I have never heard of a 15k sata drive. (10k = Raptor by Western Digital, I know I have one, they need exteme cooling, and that is why I neglected to mention it.)

SCSI drives have better data throughput because they use the SCSI protocol, while SATA and IDE use the ATAPI protocol.
but since SATA is serially attached, it is actually faster than SCSI, because SCSI is parallelly connected to a controller (up to 16 or even 32 driver per chain)
that's why nobody uses SCSI since around 2005-6, ever since SAS came out and became the official industry standard. SAS stands for Serial Attached SCSI.
and that is why I was surprised anyone would mention SCSI in 2008 for a new server.

(Parallel vs Serial Connections, Shared Ground vs Mono-pathing, SAS I have never researched, but I will get right on that.)

wikipedia has some good articles

(I said that I was wrong about server 2005, but Microsoft usually releases there products on the same year. [Example Visual Studio 2005, 2008, .Net, etc)

so?

(This statement is partially correct. Disks store data, disks need to be redundant. Stripes spread data. Mirrors of Stripes are RAID, therefore you can Mirror a Raided stripe.)

what does that have to do with backup? and anyhow, using raid 10/50/60 etc makes you lose a huge amount of drives. if this is a simple system, a raid1 for the OS and a raid5 for data should be enough. if possible - raid6 and a global hotspare, but that's wasting drives, if the system is low end. also creating raid arrays on low end raid controllers is extremely risky. a simple raid controller has no battery backup, and in case of a punctured array will simply lose all data.

(It was an example, not a list of raid controllers.)

well, give real examples, not names of companies off the top of your head.
btw, for a custom made server, the best hardware raid to use would be 3ware or LSI, definitely not adaptec

(Yes, as in multi-pathed networks, the server or router can do this. The vocab is what you learn in your certification, however it is very difficult, I understand.)

I understand you have heard a couple of general terms and you like to throw them around to look impressive. but do provide real answers, or keep it to yourself.
because QoS, HA, LB and Teaming are all different things.

(I reconize Cisco as the best, because of my CCNA training, and because most of them are trusted with the integrety of the internet. I am not aware of there competitiors, but you are. Please give him more options on the subject if you would like to.)

as my early posts in this thread suggested - not enough information on what to suggest.

(I am not being funny, but I do not know how to configure a HP VLAN, nor do I know how to get it to work with a Cisco portocool, if even need a seperate one.)

well, if you don't know something, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, right? almost every vendor had L3 switches to sell. and all of them are capable of VLANs

(I do not feel I was misleading them, and greater definition can be achieved without a personal attack. I do believe you where using the wrong tact to approach the subject of my flawed logic.)

well, overconfidence from people who are clearly wrong does tick me off. because after they have given their valuable advice, usually it's guys like me who really know what we are doing, who have to go in and clean up the mess, set everything up right, and get it to work.

(I again was comment on your tact of the subject that you took. Don't tell me to go to school, which you just did, and do not act like you know everything, because no one does. All my information is an opinion untill proven fact. Prove it wrong or right with a citation, or counter-citation.)

haven't I proven you wrong on enough pointers here?

(Not everyone who reads this post wants to research it. That is why we are helping them out)

right. we are HELPING here. one of the keys to good troubleshooting (and this comes from the official ATS course) is never to recommend anything before you know the background, and never to jump to conclusions. you made both mistakes.

The reason I am acting as I am is, because you are using direct attack, psychology.

I am not attacking you, only what you wrote here. I really couldn't care less for who you are, and how great a guy you might be.

Collaberation, is correcting someone without directly causing conflict. Please try to use less offensive statements, and I will return the favor. An example of this is "back to school, eh?"
or "sorry mate, sounds like you need to finish those studies first," I do not feel that is a fair statement, since I own most of my servers, routers, and computer, and I actively test what I learn. I am misinterprited something please do tell me, but tact is everything.

if you give advice out without knowing what you are talking about, you are causing damage. since we are trying to help people, part of the help is to prevent damage.
if you finish your studies, or at least read up on the subjects, you wouldn't give erroneous advice. that is why I insist you at least really learn the subject, before commenting and causing damage by erroneous recommendations.

[jbennet]

secondhand can also be quite good

[PirateTUX]

Wow... that was...

Anyhow... your choice of server really depends on what you're planning on doing. As jbennet just suggested, secondhand equipment can do the trick really very well, and costs a fraction of new. I'm running a couple of secondhand IBM NetFinity servers right now, one as a CVS server, one as a LAMP server. They do the job very well, and were very inexpensive. They include a bunch of the "fancy" features, such as RAID, tape backup, redundant power supplies, etc. as well. And parts for them (in case of failure) can be had fairly readily and at fairly low cost.

Really, the first thing you've got to determine is load. How many users, and how intensive the use? How much storage is needed (my servers are a little lean on hard drive space, but I don't really need that much)? If you've bought a computer before, choose a server is not that tough.

[jbennet]

i got a compaq proliant with quad (pentium 3 era) xeons and 2gb ram to be my home/development/training server. That server and a load of hotswap drives etc.... cost me on ebay under £350, and came with valid nt4 server disk and licences

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

you have received an entire list of things you were wrong about.

yes, that is right. that is why in all the posts before yours, nobody gave full recommendations, asking for requirement details instead.

good :)

Again opinionated answers

SCSI drives have better data throughput because they use the SCSI protocol, while SATA and IDE use the ATAPI protocol.
but since SATA is serially attached, it is actually faster than SCSI, because SCSI is parallelly connected to a controller (up to 16 or even 32 driver per chain)
that's why nobody uses SCSI since around 2005-6, ever since SAS came out and became the official industry standard. SAS stands for Serial Attached SCSI.
and that is why I was surprised anyone would mention SCSI in 2008 for a new server.

wikipedia has some good articles

This information is CONTRAVERSIAL and cannot be proven either way. You need to think twice before giving out answer that could be wrong. A good citation to back up your claim is needed.
(Serial vs Paralell)

I know what SAS is, and he may not buy a new server. He may not have that kind of money.

so?

I don't even understand why you responded to this.

what does that have to do with backup? and anyhow, using raid 10/50/60 etc makes you lose a huge amount of drives. if this is a simple system, a raid1 for the OS and a raid5 for data should be enough. if possible - raid6 and a global hotspare, but that's wasting drives, if the system is low end. also creating raid arrays on low end raid controllers is extremely risky. a simple raid controller has no battery backup, and in case of a punctured array will simply lose all data.

I was giving out information

well, give real examples, not names of companies off the top of your head.
btw, for a custom made server, the best hardware raid to use would be 3ware or LSI, definitely not adaptec

That is what advice is. This is not a flow chart or a corperate meeting.

I understand you have heard a couple of general terms and you like to throw them around to look impressive. but do provide real answers, or keep it to yourself.
because QoS, HA, LB and Teaming are all different things.

I am not, but you are throwing out terms that look impressive, well no one is impressed. Most people doesn't know what Quality of Service (QOS).

as my early posts in this thread suggested - not enough information on what to suggest.

Again I am giving my opinion.

well, if you don't know something, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, right? almost every vendor had L3 switches to sell. and all of them are capable of VLANs

I never said it didn't exsist, I stated I did not know.

well, overconfidence from people who are clearly wrong does tick me off. because after they have given their valuable advice, usually it's guys like me who really know what we are doing, who have to go in and clean up the mess, set everything up right, and get it to work.

You shalt not remove thy splinter from your neighbor's eye, when you do not see the wooden beam in your own eye.

haven't I proven you wrong on enough pointers here?

You are irrational, a prick, un-collberative, and you definatly have a god complex. You keep telling me not to do somthing, as you do not see you are doing it. Discontinue this, and I shall as well. Do you get some kind of pleasure trying to prove me wrong. Listen you have some IT experance, your also a person. Everyone makes mistakes, but this doesn't have to turn into a pissing contest. (Excuse my langauge, but In know no other way to state this.)

right. we are HELPING here. one of the keys to good troubleshooting (and this comes from the official ATS course) is never to recommend anything before you know the background, and never to jump to conclusions. you made both mistakes.

Seriously, he asked for an opinion, this isn't a million dollar thing. He can take my advice or not. I see, don't jump to conclusions, but its ok to publically try and humilate someone. I do not see your logic.

I am not attacking you, only what you wrote here. I really couldn't care less for who you are, and how great a guy you might be.

Sure you arne't, and tigers can fly.

if you give advice out without knowing what you are talking about, you are causing damage. since we are trying to help people, part of the help is to prevent damage.
if you finish your studies, or at least read up on the subjects, you wouldn't give erroneous advice. that is why I insist you at least really learn the subject, before commenting and causing damage by erroneous recommendations.

I know the field, and I know how to give advice. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. Someone will correct me, with some collaberation, not telling me I am wrong. Again dude, just state your opinion on the question, and move on. We don't need this tedious arguement anymore.

If anyone would like to arbitrate, or mediate this, please do so. I am tired of this conflict.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

i got a compaq proliant with quad (pentium 3 era) xeons and 2gb ram to be my home/development/training server. That server and a load of hotswap drives etc.... cost me on ebay under £350, and came with valid nt4 server disk and licences

Is that a 6500 series? If it is, that was a great starter server for me. Also the parts are widely available. Compaq was a pretty good company.

[jbennet]

something like that yeah. My "starter" server was an old 1600 (dual pentium 2) which ran NT as well

[DimaYasny]

again, just words, no proof.
I will stop tossing pearls now, DJ- has shown himself incompetent enough.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

again, just words, no proof.
I will stop tossing pearls now, DJ- has shown himself incompetent enough.

You believe I am incompetent, yet only one person has corrected me, and I admitted he was right after he explained his logic. Yet do not. Attacking my integrety will not slove anything, but a personal vendetta to make yourself feel better about, yourself.

We are in conflict.

Ways to Slove conflict:

Avoiding the problem.
Collaberation
Mediation
Arbitration

So far, you have not made an attempt at any of those.

I am at mediation, so think about that before you try to disprove someone. They have feelings, and publically telling them there wrong, is an act of you thinking your better, tahn someone else. You pull them aside, and corret them pritivally. A change can be made, and everyone is happy. Thats collaberation. If that doesn't work, you go to mediation, and have someone else try to settle the arguement by negotiating. Finally, if you even get here Arbitration is when somone just desides for both parties.

Are you ready to collaberate, because I have been trying this whole time.

Just admit, we both got out of hand, and we both need to stop this madness. Admit it, as I am, and lets move on.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

something like that yeah. My "starter" server was an old 1600 (dual pentium 2) which ran NT as well

Is that a tower or a rackmount, because if it is a tower, I think I know which one it is.

[DimaYasny]

no, what you did was give bad advice and insult me directly in private messages, after I corrected the advice.

forums are there for opinions to be shared publicly, a that is exactly what I have been doing.

there is no madness here, but your own, and that's not really madness, just childish stubbornness, not wanting to admit you were wrong.
well, get over it, think before you give advice, and if you are wrong simply admit it, and let this be a lesson for you for the future.

[DJ-KhaosTheory]

no, what you did was give bad advice and insult me directly in private messages, after I corrected the advice.

forums are there for opinions to be shared publicly, a that is exactly what I have been doing.

there is no madness here, but your own, and that's not really madness, just childish stubbornness, not wanting to admit you were wrong.
well, get over it, think before you give advice, and if you are wrong simply admit it, and let this be a lesson for you for the future.

After I tried to end this. All your doing is picking out details, removing yourself from them and targeting me.

Ok, who is really being stubburn here. You just slapped my hand for trying to compromise, well that just proves you need to seriously rethink your own problems, and quit using this fourm as an outlet.

I did admit I was wrong, where I was wrong.

[DimaYasny]

I did admit I was wrong, where I was wrong.

that's simply grand, I'm happy for you

[John A]

You believe I am incompetent, yet only one person has corrected me, and I admitted he was right after he explained his logic. Yet do not. Attacking my integrety will not slove anything, but a personal vendetta to make yourself feel better about, yourself.

We are in conflict.

Ways to Slove conflict:

Avoiding the problem.
Collaberation
Mediation
Arbitration

So far, you have not made an attempt at any of those.

I am at mediation, so think about that before you try to disprove someone. They have feelings, and publically telling them there wrong, is an act of you thinking your better, tahn someone else. You pull them aside, and corret them pritivally. A change can be made, and everyone is happy. Thats collaberation. If that doesn't work, you go to mediation, and have someone else try to settle the arguement by negotiating. Finally, if you even get here Arbitration is when somone just desides for both parties.

Are you ready to collaberate, because I have been trying this whole time.

Just admit, we both got out of hand, and we both need to stop this madness. Admit it, as I am, and lets move on.

Okay, first off, I think you really need to take a chill pill. There's a big difference between picking apart someone's post to attack factual information that they provide (the rules here permit this), and going out of one's way to insult someone on a forum (this is against the rules).

I've seen both a lot throughout the past, and I can assure you that this is mainly the case of the former. Now, I'm not saying that the information you provided was correct, nor am I saying that it's incorrect. I'm not a hardware person, so I'm not qualified to comment on most of the information provided by either party. On the other hand, I'm more inclined to believe what DimaYasny has said, due to the fact that you've stopped refuting the information he's given you, and resorted to whining about how he's being mean and attacking you. Not to mention that your credibility has already been damaged with your claim about 64 bit computing and its respective memory.

When this first began, it was simply a challenge of factual information, which I was fine with. However, it seems like it's drifting into more of an insult-slinging competition, and if this goes on for any longer, I'm afraid this thread will have to be closed. To everyone here: you're welcome to continue debating factual information, however, but please keep it (relatively) pleasant.