Hacking = Writing?

[invisal]

I have argued with this guy for hours. In this conversation, I am Silence and he is link

[22:24] <link> Silence, how many times do you hack?
[22:24] <Silence> link: hack me if you can
[22:24] <link> I thought you were a programmer, yet you told me to hack you...
[22:24] <link> you must be crazy...
[22:25] <link> lemme hack you then... give me your programming language... CGI?
[22:27] <link> it never does matter to a software engineer...
[22:27] <link> Silence, you don't know anything about hacking... because a software engineer wouldn't think hacking isn't what you think...
[22:28] <Silence> I assume that hacking in what you mention is about finding the weak hole of a software
[22:28] <Silence> I think you mean cracking
[22:28] <link> Silence, what? You know nothing...
[22:29] <Silence> link: so you know everything
[22:30] <link> and you do know nothing...
[22:32] <link> Silence, you're telling me that hacking is finding the weak security hole?
[22:33] <link> I'm talking about programming languages not finding weakness of the computer
[22:33] <Silence> link: I was confused whether you are talking hacking in term of what... I assume that you are hacking a software and use it for free or whatsoever... because you never mention in which field you refer to
[22:34] <link> Silence, lemme repeat. you do know nothing..
[22:34] <Silence> link: so you know more than me?
[22:35] <link> Silence, I'm skeptical of you...
[22:35] <link> please go learn your C Sharp again...
[22:35] <Silence> link: sorry dude, I learn C
[22:36] <link> It's called C sharp...
[22:36] <Silence> C, C++, and C# are difference
[22:37] <link> I asked you... how many times do you hack
[22:37] <link> yet you gave me a negative idea
[22:37] <Silence> link: hack has alot of term
[22:38] <Silence> lol... I assuem you misuse your word as well
[22:41] <Silence> and link can you identify your word hack... i think you mis-use it
[22:41] <link> you even spell the word "misuse" wrong...
[22:43] <link> Silence, go learn more...and ask me about that...
[22:43] <Silence> link: so i assume you know nothing as well because you fail to provide the defintion of what you asking me maybe you are unsure of what you are saying too
[22:44] <link> I don't think you would be a good software engineer since you like to assume too much...
[22:44] <link> oh please...
[22:45] <link> look at how you spelled the word "misuse"...
[22:46] <Silence> link: misspell didn't mean I don't know about programming
[22:46] <link> hacking means to write, Silence...
[22:46] <link> I'm sorry... we don't use the term like you
[22:47] <link> you're a retard...
[22:49] <Silence> link: I don't think it is right
[22:50] <Silence> I learn C and you said it called C-sharp
[22:50] <link> that's still called C sharp...
[22:50] <Silence> where C and C-sharp are different
[22:51] <link> how can you say C sharp is different from C?
[22:52] <Silence> C-sharp is developed from C++, and C++ is developed from C
[22:52] <Silence> C don't have OOP
[22:52] <Silence> C-sharp has OOP
[22:52] <link> seriously... we would laugh at you for saying hacking is to find the weak security hole
[22:52] <Silence> link: because hacking doesn't mean writing in programming
[22:56] <link> hack means to write...
[22:56] <link> not what you think...
[22:56] <Silence> that is what you think
[22:59] <link> Silence, you're not even a software engineer... look. You don't even know what hacking means...
[22:59] <Silence> link: lol at least I know that hacking doesn't mean writing
[23:00] <Silence> link: I have living in a programming environment for 5 years yet I have heard anything that hacking = writing
[23:00] <link> Silence, you need to compile yourself with another coder...
[23:02] <link> Silence, you do know nothing. Oh, please. Stop being such a braggart.
[23:03] <Silence> link, sorry hacking isn't what you think
[23:05] <link> Silence knows nothing about hacking..
[23:05] <Silence> link: proof please
[23:09] <link> You said you wanted a reliable proof...
[23:09] <link> go learn your English again.
[23:20] <link> it's already apparent that you do know nothing about hacking... 
[23:20] <link> you don't know English?
[23:21] <Silence> link: no proof?
[23:24] <badboyz> it's getting lame
[23:25] <link> badboyz, Silence is an example of "lame"
[23:25] <Silence> link: hm.. do I?
[23:26] <link> Silence, you don't, but you are...
[23:27] <Silence> link: I know it is shameful for you to admit that you know nothing but you just act as if you are an expert in computer
[23:27] <link> what? Silence, you do know nothing about hacking...
[23:27] <link> it's apparent so...
[23:28] <link> You only make me laugh.
[23:34] <link> Silence, you need know what hacking means, if you want to be a good coder.
[23:36] <Silence> link: good coder is not about knowing many stupid words, but the problem-solving skill and the logical-thinking skill
[23:36] <Silence> sorry dude but you made me laugh again
[23:36] <link> Silence, you do know nothing about hacking...
[23:36] <link> It's apparent so... I said
[23:37] <link> Silence, lemme repeat. You're just too unethical about coding... or hacking...
[23:37] <link> yes, it does mean you don't know anything...
[23:39] <link> That's what I call a "retard"....
[23:40] <Silence> link: you act as if you know everything and an expert but your manner and each line you said make me realize that you are not
[23:40] <link> no, hacking is so common in our programming language.
[23:40] <link> You guys misuse the term.
[23:40] <Silence> in your programming langyage, not mine
[23:43] <Silence> I have been googling for your hacking=writing=programming for 2 hours yet there is no source that state that it is true
[23:43] <link> I would call you a "dumb ass" 
[23:44] <Silence> link: I think it is not common enough dude lol
[23:44] <link> You're not common to us. Not at all.
[23:45] <Silence> link: hm... I think it's such a waste to argue with you... I don't even know how well you can code
[23:46] <link> Silence, why do you need to google for, if you said you're a coder?
[23:46] <link> Seriously, you're just being a retard.
[23:46] <Silence> link: I try to find a proof for your hacking=writing
[23:47] <Silence> but sorry dude... there is no source to support it
[23:47] <link> Silence, hacking doesn't need proof. I don't recall hacking needs proof before.
[23:49] <link> Silence, are you still being skeptical?
[23:49] <link> you're not such a coder...
[23:49] <link> You're being tenacious...
[23:51] <link> Silence, seriously, I never met a coder like you.
[23:51] <life> silence keep it silence
[23:52] <Silence> link: I have never seen such a programmer like you
[23:52] <link> I recall telling you that your English was bad.
[23:55] <link> Why do you depend on google?
[23:55] <Silence> link: if it is common, then it can be founded
[23:56] <Silence> and don't say you don't use google
[23:56] <Silence> link: it is common
[23:56] <Silence> using google is not common?
[23:58] <link> Nope. Silence, get out of my face since you don't know anything about hacking.

[Narue]

Wow, that guy looks like a lot of fun. What IRC server/channel was that in? :)

But yes, hacking can mean writing. There are multiple definitions of "hacking", and one of those is skillfully writing programs (or kludges, depending on the context).

[invisal]

It was in irc.uirc.net in #cambodia. I asked him to provide me the proof that hacking can mean writting. Eveni if hacking means writing, he shouldn't insult me like that because knowing that word doesn't mean he is far better than me.

Nature, your new avatar looks cool ^_^

[Narue]

>he shouldn't insult me like that because knowing
>that word doesn't mean he is far better than me.
Welcome to the web. If you let losers like that bother you, you're better off staying in the real world where people are afraid of getting punched in the face for insults like that.

>Nature, your new avatar looks cool ^_^
Nature? ;)

[invisal]

>he shouldn't insult me like that because knowing
>that word doesn't mean he is far better than me.
Welcome to the web. If you let losers like that bother you, you're better off staying in the real world where people are afraid of getting punched in the face for insults like that.

>Nature, your new avatar looks cool ^_^
Nature? ;)

Narue and Nature looks alike :P

[Ken Sharpe]

Paul Graham talks about hackers as artists. You should google his essays, they are fantastic.

[TheBuzzer]

well some stuff that you said in the chat log doesn't make much sense.

For example I think he was talking about finding web site exploits to "hack" into the website.

You said he was cracking. Cracking is used for downloaded programs where you bypass the security measures of a program to use it for free. Done mostly with assembly language.

He was talking about cgi or perl scripts.

Well he was wrong about c and c sharp being the same thing but other than that I think you both were pissed off and stop thinking logically.

[linux]

That guy was quite the ignorant fool.

He says you know nothing, yet he says C and C# are the same.

[invisal]

You said he was cracking. Cracking is used for downloaded programs where you bypass the security measures of a program to use it for free. Done mostly with assembly language..

Software cracking is the modification of software to remove protection methods: copy prevention, trial/demo version, serial number, hardware key, CD check or software annoyances like nag screens and adware. [B](Wikipedia)[/B]

As you know Perl and CGI are script languages, it can easily be cracked. At first I though he talked about hacking the computer, but then when he said in programming, I though that he mean crack. Since cracking a software mean remove the protection from using full-version. I know some CGI code trying to protect by encrypt their code so that you're unable to remove their protection. I think it make sense to me.

[TheBuzzer]

Software cracking is the modification of software to remove protection methods: copy prevention, trial/demo version, serial number, hardware key, CD check or software annoyances like nag screens and adware. [B](Wikipedia)[/B]

As you know Perl and CGI are script languages, it can easily be cracked. At first I though he talked about hacking the computer, but then when he said in programming, I though that he mean crack. Since cracking a software mean remove the protection from using full-version. I know some CGI code trying to protect by encrypt their code so that you're unable to remove their protection. I think it make sense to me.

Well perl and cgi are script languages but they run on a server. the output result that user sees when connecting to a web server is not the same as the code itself. So in order to get the code itself one got to figure out how to exploit the cgi scripts running to download the real source of it and not the client side result. After they can look at the cgi script for stuff like mysql connection code for the mysql username and password.

What i feel are terms for hack is when starting with no code or cheating in a game.
Crack is having the exe or the code and bypass security measures.

I may be wrong but thats what I feel those terms are.

Oh ya and script kiddies are people that use exploits program by someone else.

[invisal]

Well perl and cgi are script languages but they run on a server. the output result that user sees when connecting to a web server is not the same as the code itself. So in order to get the code itself one got to figure out how to exploit the cgi scripts running to download the real source of it and not the client side result. After they can look at the cgi script for stuff like mysql connection code for the mysql username and password.

What i feel are terms for hack is when starting with no code or cheating in a game.
Crack is having the exe or the code and bypass security measures.

I may be wrong but thats what I feel those terms are.

Oh ya and script kiddies are people that use exploits program by someone else.

I don't think you are really get what I mean. Some commercial CGI scripts sell their code to earn money. They provide you the code however they encrypt the code so that it looks impossible to understand. Still alot of cracker, would de-encrypt those code and remove their protection code so that they can actually use the full-version without buying the license.

[moerpheus]

yo guyz,
all i know is dat, a hacker is a good person and a cracker is a bad person.
Hacker hacks 2 benefit all.

When you hack is dat you are looking for a weak point and so to protect against crackers who would use dat to attack!....

[invisal]

Hackers can be good or bad depending on their purpose.

• Some hackers will unauthorized access to other computer. (bad person)
• Some hackers will prevent other hackers to hack into their system. (good person)

Cracker can be good or bad depending on people opinion.

• If you are a programmer and you produce a commercial software, then you would thiink cracker is bad person.
• If you live in under-developed country or developing country, cracker is so damn good person because he crack the software and sell it in 1 dollar which the actual price of the software is over 100 dollars.

[moerpheus]

Hackers can be good or bad depending on their purpose.

• Some hackers will unauthorized access to other computer. (bad person)
• Some hackers will prevent other hackers to hack into their system. (good person)

Cracker can be good or bad depending on people opinion.

• If you are a programmer and you produce a commercial software, then you would thiink cracker is bad person.
• If you live in under-developed country or developing country, cracker is so damn good person because he crack the software and sell it in 1 dollar which the actual price of the software is over 100 dollars.

How can a hacker be a bad person?
when a person access a computer which he/she is not authorized then that person is a cracker!...

[invisal]

When a person access a computer which he/she is not authorized then that person is still a hacker.

[maydhyam]

Hi Everyone,

First off, that guy 'link' is a rather ignorant person...very sad!

Secondly, I was doing some light reading a while ago, and thought I'd share this with you all.....

There is a community, a shared culture, of expert programmers and networking wizards that traces its history back through decades to the first time-sharing minicomputers and the earliest ARPAnet experiments. The members of this culture originated the term ‘hacker’. Hackers built the Internet. Hackers made the Unix operating system what it is today. Hackers run Usenet. Hackers make the World Wide Web work.

The hacker mind-set is not confined to this software-hacker culture. There are people who apply the hacker attitude to other things, like electronics or music — actually, you can find it at the highest levels of any science or art. Software hackers recognize these kindred spirits elsewhere and may call them ‘hackers’ too — and some claim that the hacker nature is really independent of the particular medium the hacker works in.

There is another group of people who loudly call themselves hackers, but aren't. These are people (mainly adolescent males) who get a kick out of breaking into computers and phreaking the phone system. Real hackers call these people ‘crackers’ and want nothing to do with them. Real hackers mostly think crackers are lazy, irresponsible, and not very bright, and object that being able to break security doesn't make you a hacker any more than being able to hotwire cars makes you an automotive engineer. Unfortunately, many journalists and writers have been fooled into using the word ‘hacker’ to describe crackers; this irritates real hackers no end.

The basic difference is this: hackers build things, crackers break them.

[invisal]

I did a few search about it earlier and I found this as well:

From HowStuffWorks

Hackers and Crackers
Many computer programmers insist that the word "hacker" applies only to law-abiding enthusiasts who help create programs and applications or improve computer security. Anyone using his or her skills maliciously isn't a hacker at all, but a cracker.

Crackers infiltrate systems and cause mischief, or worse. Unfortunately, most people outside the hacker community use the word as a negative term because they don't understand the distinction between hackers and crackers.

From TechTarget

The term hacker is used in popular media to describe someone who attempts to break into computer systems. Typically, this kind of hacker would be a proficient programmer or engineer with sufficient technical knowledge to understand the weak points in a security system. For more on this usage

cracker is someone who breaks into someone else's computer system, often on a network; bypasses passwords or licenses in computer programs; or in other ways intentionally breaches computer security. A cracker can be doing this for profit, maliciously, for some altruistic purpose or cause, or because the challenge is there. Some breaking-and-entering has been done ostensibly to point out weaknesses in a site's security system.

From Webopedia

(1) To break into a computer system. The term was coined in the mid-80s by hackers who wanted to differentiate themselves from individuals whose sole purpose is to sneak through security systems. Whereas crackers sole aim is to break into secure systems, hackers are more interested in gaining knowledge about computer systems and possibly using this knowledge for playful pranks. Although hackers still argue that there's a big difference between what they do and what crackers do, the mass media has failed to understand the distinction, so the two terms -- hack and crack -- are often used interchangeably.

[domzkey]

Thanks a lot !!
I new something

[maydhyam]

There was another thread along similar lines to this thread here

[pritaeas]

Personally, I love the Jargon File's description best:

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/introduction.html

[chaosprime]

The original post suggests a benefit to be derived from googling 'arguing on the internet'.

[Ancient Dragon]

>>Hacking = Writing?
Only in VB. In C and C++ its Hacking == Writing?