css and html is good things please help me to use it

[rajabilal 7453]

hi this site is so good please help me to use it 7453

[dlannetts]

hi this site is so good please help me to use it 7453

www.w3schools.com is a great place to start learning html and css, if you get stuck and am confused about something and can't find help on google just leave us a comment here, l am sure someone will get back to you.

[cfajohnson]

Almost anywhere will be better than w3schools. There are mistakes on every single page of their HTML tutorial.
Despite their name, w3schools is not affiliated with the W3C.

Try http://htmldog.com, http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/Overview.html.

Always validate your HTML at http://validator.w3.org.

[dlannetts]

mm, there may be better sites out there but for my html knowledge l always used w3school, never did l find something that did not work or needed correcting, and when l did, that's because l wrote it in wrong.

[cfajohnson]

Let's look at their HTML tutorial.

The first page: http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp
And intro: http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_intro.asp

The example they give is not a valid HTML page (there's no DOCTYPE). This is true for all the examples, so I will not mention it again.

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_primary.asp
They say HTML but use XHTML: <img src="w3schools.jpg" width="104" height="142" />

The example is not compliant with the standard; it has no alt attribute.

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_elements.asp

"Most browsers will display HTML correctly even if you forget the end tag:
<p>This is a paragraph
<p>This is a paragraph

The example above will work in most browsers, but don't rely on it. Forgetting the end tag can produce unexpected results or errors.

Note: Future version of HTML will not allow you to skip end tags."

This is absolute nonsense. The closing tag </p> is not required; only XHTML requires it. HTML5 does not require it.

"Adding a slash to the start tag, like <br />, is the proper way of closing empty elements, accepted by HTML, XHTML and XML."

No, it is not valid HTML.

"W3Schools use lowercase tags because the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) recommends lowercase in HTML 4, and demands lowercase tags in future versions of (X)HTML."

HTML5 does not require lowercase tags.

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_attributes.asp: OK

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_headings.asp: <hr /> in HTML.

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_paragraphs.asp: Repeat of erroneous material about <p>; use of <br />

"Even if <br> works in all browsers, writing <br /> instead is more future proof."

Nonsense! It's not valid HTML.

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_formatting.asp: OK
http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_styles.asp: OK

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_links.asp:

"<a href="http://www.w3schools.com/"
target="_blank">Visit W3Schools!</a> "

'target' is not a valid attribute.

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_images.asp:
"It is a good practice to include the "alt" attribute for each image on a page"

No! The alt attribute is mandatory.

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_lists.asp: OK

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp:

<form> must have block-level elements as its children; the example has only inline elements.

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_colors.asp: OK
http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_colornames.asp: OK
http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_colorvalues.asp: OK

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_layout.asp: OK

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_fonts.asp: <font size="2" face="Verdana"> (But they do say not to use it.)

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_whyusehtml4.asp: Finally: they say to add a doctype!

[dlannetts]

lol, you sure did go to a big trouble to prove me wrong. l thought you were referring to bigger errors tan this. But yeah, most of the sites l make are ... normal, and well at least l thought l got all my knowledge from hem.

[cfajohnson]

lol, you sure did go to a big trouble to prove me wrong. l thought you were referring to bigger errors tan this.

Individually they may be small errors, but for a site that claims to be teaching a language, they sure have a lot of them!

I don't know whether their reference section is any more accurate, but based on their tutorial, I wouldn't trust them for anything.

[ErlendHL]

w3schools is very good! Most of that cfajohnson said was wrong, works nice!
I use lots of <br /> and <hr />; that works in HTML indeed.
Many of the examples he mentioned, was just from examples to show how to do basic stuff, not to explain every very part of it.
@'target' is not a valid attribute.
Yes! It is! If it is not defined, the page will be opened in the same tab/window, if it is '_blank', it will be opened in a new tab/window

"It is a good practice to include the "alt" attribute for each image on a page"
Yes! It is!

@<font size="2" face="Verdana"> (But they do say not to use it.)
They show a example on how to use font, but say not to use it; is that so very wrong? = an example on what not should be done. Just so you understand exactly what it is, and know that that should not be used.
They even say what should be used!

And all that about that they put no doctype at the beginning of the tutorial, but says it at the end; why get confused with doctype while trying to learn the basics?... whats the matter in what order you learn stuff?
There is no critical error if you don't add doctype... When you have walked through the tutorial, and learned doctype too, then you will begin with serious projects, where that may be necessary.

I have used w3schools a lot, and find it as a very trustable source! It is easy to understand, it takes only the most important parts.

[cfajohnson]

w3schools is very good! Most of that cfajohnson said was wrong, works nice!
I use lots of <br /> and <hr />; that works in HTML indeed.

But your pages will not be valid HTML.

Can you show me an HTML page with <br /> or <hr /> that is valid HTML? I didn't think so.

Many of the examples he mentioned, was just from examples to show how to do basic stuff, not to explain every very part of it.
@'target' is not a valid attribute.
Yes! It is! If it is not defined, the page will be opened in the same tab/window, if it is '_blank', it will be opened in a new tab/window

There are few things more annoying that pages that open a new window. That's why it is not part of HTML4.01 Strict.

"It is a good practice to include the "alt" attribute for each image on a page"
Yes! It is!

It is not merely "good practice"; it is required by the standard.

@<font size="2" face="Verdana"> (But they do say not to use it.)
They show a example on how to use font, but say not to use it; is that so very wrong? = an example on what not should be done. Just so you understand exactly what it is, and know that that should not be used.
They even say what should be used!

Yes; it's one of the things they did right.

And all that about that they put no doctype at the beginning of the tutorial, but says it at the end; why get confused with doctype while trying to learn the basics?... whats the matter in what order you learn stuff?

The DOCTYPE is basic. Without it, a page is not HTML.

They get people off to a bad start. It would have been acceptable, perhaps, if they had begun with the requirements of a valid HTML page, and then pointed out that they would omit it in the interest of brevity in later pages.

There is no critical error if you don't add doctype... When you have walked through the tutorial, and learned doctype too, then you will begin with serious projects, where that may be necessary.

I have used w3schools a lot, and find it as a very trustable source! It is easy to understand, it takes only the most important parts.

[dlannetts]

I have used w3schools a lot, and find it as a very trustable source! It is easy to understand, it takes only the most important parts.

l do agree with you :)

[cfajohnson]

l do agree with you :)

Do you not care about their many errors?

If not, why not?

[dlannetts]

Do you not care about their many errors?

If not, why not?

meh, l have been doing html and css and others stuff for a few years now, probably just like you, l know all the tricks and trades of the job, l am sure we wouldn't be able to get w3schools to change what they have so why bother, l know most of what l need, l also know how to use google when in doubt, and if it doesn't have any answers l can manage than this place is my next shot. Seriously, the guy that started this thread still needs that pep talk that GOOGLE is your FRIEND, most people here have got a job or school or something and don't have the time to teach him what w3schools can start him of with.

[opsryushi]

Okay... I'm gonna say what I'm pretty sure everyone else who has read through this thread is thinking.

cfajohnson,

That's enough. Really. Not only are your web design practices outdated (W3C now recommends XHTML over HTML), you have done absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread or help the OP with his question.

As I'm sure nearly every other regular poster in the Web Design forum would agree, w3schools is probably one of the top 2 or 3 places on the net for beginners to learn about website development.

The massive post detailing errors in their tutorial was completely inappropriate, not to mention totally irrelevant to the discussion.

Unless you have something valuable to contribute that will help answer someone's question or solve a problem, you might consider not wasting bandwidth accusing other people of bad web design practices.

========
rajabilal 7453, welcome. You should start by learning some basic XHTML (it's easier than ever to learn!), and progress from there into incorporating CSS into your pages/sites. As many other people have pointed out, there are several places on the Internet to learn. w3schools has probably the best tutorials I've seen so far; you might start there. Good luck; Google is your friend; and come back and ask us questions, we're here to help!

[cfajohnson]

That's enough. Really. Not only are your web design practices outdated (W3C now recommends XHTML over HTML),

No, the W3C does not recommend one over the other. In fact the main thrust of development is now HTML5, and XHTML is taking a back seat to that.

Furthermore, the most-used browser, IE, doesn't even understand XHTML; it parses it as HTML, making any gains from XHTML useless.

you have done absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread or help the OP with his question.

Didn't you see the links I posted to two good sites?

As I'm sure nearly every other regular poster in the Web Design forum would agree, w3schools is probably one of the top 2 or 3 places on the net for beginners to learn about website development.

Popularity has never been a good indicator of quality.

The massive post detailing errors in their tutorial was completely inappropriate, not to mention totally irrelevant to the discussion.

Why was it inappropriate? If it took details to steer people away from a site full of misinformation, so be it.

(I will narrow my criticism of w3schools, in that their HTML reference section does seem quite good after a quick glance. The HTML tutorial, on the other hand, not only has mistakes, but they leave out much that should be in a beginner's tutorial.)

[dlannetts]

ok, not taking sides but l think it might be time you unsubscribe from this thread cfajohnson, no one can say what the perfect script is, everyone has what they prefer, depending on how much effort you put into a website depends on what you get out of it, how many browsers it reads on, etc. The only reason IE is most common is because it is pretty default, everyone who knows a bit about downloading new browsers and installing them has done so, most will know that IE is a shit browser, specially those who do design websites. Also, would it not be a good habit to close the <html> and <body> in your site cfajohnson? If you are unsure it is </html> and </body> ... From this l am not picking you to pieces, just saying, everyone will make a mistake every now and than.

[cfajohnson]

ok, not taking sides

On the contrary; that's just what you are doing.

but l think it might be time you unsubscribe from this thread cfajohnson, no one can say what the perfect script is,

No, but the W3C, which sets the standards, can say what it or is not a valid web page.

everyone has what they prefer,

Why would anyone prefer to do something that is less likely to work?

depending on how much effort you put into a website depends on what you get out of it, how many browsers it reads on, etc.

The way to make a page work in all browsers is, before anything else, to adhere to the standards.

The only reason IE is most common is because it is pretty default, everyone who knows a bit about downloading new browsers and installing them has done so, most will know that IE is a shit browser, specially those who do design websites.

Indeed. That is why XHTML doesn't gain you anything; IE cannot parse XHTML as XHTML.

Now, I am not saying don't use XHTML, just that there is no reason not to use HTML.

Also, would it not be a good habit to close the <html> and <body> in your site cfajohnson?

Why? I am using HTML, not XHTML. In HTML, those closing tags are optional (as are the corresponding opening tags).

If you are unsure it is </html> and </body> ... From this l am not picking you to pieces, just saying, everyone will make a mistake every now and than.

What mistake? The pages are all valid HTML 4.01.

[dlannetts]

haha, you have totally misread what l wrote, or at least misunderstood what l meant when l wrote it, you also make your self sound like a professional.

everyone will make a mistake every now and than

where in here did l say anything about your site? you have been building them 10 year old sites perfectly forever have you? never a mistake? WoW.

On the contrary; that's just what you are doing.

No, l actually stand for myself, l don't stand for anyone else, except for maybe family and friends

Why would anyone prefer to do something that is less likely to work?

What? when l started l didn't know as much as l do now, since than, l have followed what has best worked for me, this has not all to do with coding, it be as much as how you set your web pages out.

depending on how much effort you put into a website depends on what you get out of it, how many browsers it reads on, etc. ... The way to make a page work on all browsers is, before anything else, to adhere to the standards.

Firstly, not everyone is worried about standards when they begin, anyone can make a good website, and if it doesn't work in all browsers that's when you put in the effort to work out why and how to fix it.

Why? I am using HTML, not XHTML. In HTML, those closing tags are optional (as are the corresponding opening tags).

Oh yes sorry, you don't use w3schools, l forgot.

Trust me, l see the point in everything you have said so far, but l am still unsure that when someone wants THEIR say, or wants to include something from what they know and or believe you have to come along, quote it and ruin every single sentence they have said, whats the bet, you will do that again to my post?

[cfajohnson]

Oh yes sorry, you don't use w3schools, l forgot.

Of course I don't; they recommend doing things that are invalid HTML.

Trust me, l see the point in everything you have said so far, but l am still unsure that when someone wants THEIR say, or wants to include something from what they know and or believe you have to come along, quote it and ruin every single sentence they have said, whats the bet, you will do that again to my post?

How have I ruined anything you posted? I can still see everything you wrote in pristine condition.

When I comment on something, I put the comment immediately after it. That way the reader doesn't have to hunt through the post to see what I am referring to.