Hey,
Right now I'm using XP, and I was thinking of getting a laptop. Now, I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Vista, but most of the things I heard are "It sucks." Or "don't get it" or "it's extremely slow". Now, except for the last one those are pretty vauge. Can anyone tell me the actual problems with Vista/your opinion on it.
Also - as far as the speed - if you get a lot of RAM (like 2,3, or even 4 gigs), will it become less of an issue?
Well,
I have used all of the Windows products from the beginning and can never remember a time when I have been more frustrated with an operating system!
A 'feature' of Vista is the 'User Access Control' which is a security measure introduced with Vista. There are dire warnings about switching it off - allowing viruses to enter the machine etc., but it is an absolute pain.
Every time you want to open a program that Microsoft do not want to recognise - like Firefox and some of their own products like Windows Fax and Scan, a window pops up asking if yuou are sure that you want to continue. In fact there are more pop ups with many things that you try to do.
If you want to connect the Vista computer to a network so that you can access devices and computers there, then there will probably be issues - many of them unresolvable because drivers are unavailable. I have a new Lexmark printer and cannot connect to it over the network from the Vista machine. Lexmark printers are not alone and there are lots of printers that will not connect. Access to the Vista machine will be difficult if not impossible without delving into the tangled depths of the security 'features'.
I also have a USB memory stick that I use with every other computer other than the Vista machine. The Vista machine will not recognise it. I bought it in mid-2007.
I was fortunate to attend a Vista release show and all of the emphasis was on security.. particularly for business not ease of use or reliability. The product is clearly aimed at this sector where the 'boss' may want to fully control his PC's so that even USB drives cannot be used, no software can be added, internet access is limited and severely controlled. Machines can be locked down so tightly they will not allow any flexibility.. like adding a new printer without bringing in a tech guy.
Forget the Aero interface - it is 'cute' but you will tire of using it and eventually forget it.
I also do not like the new 'Start' menu where it can be difficult to find the program you need. Unlike XP the list of program files does not expand across the screen to show them all. Vista has a scrollable window which shows some programs and other folders with programs where further delving is necessary. More work than XP.
Note that I am not plugging Linux... but the disk space overhead and the slow boot up and shut down times should make you look in that direction also if you must change....
Just ignore people who say Vista sucks or not to get it. These are stupid peole who are afraid of change :P.
If you feel you want to give Windows Vista a chance, do so. Don't rely on what other people say to form an opinion. Afterwards, whether or not you like it, you know that's the case because of *you*, not some obscure fanboy from either side.
To be honest, I wouldn't really advise anybody buying new computers to get XP. That is dumb advice. XP will be legacy soon. Remember Vista will be the one to get new software and features from now on.
And to those who say Visat is XP in a pretty dress: you're stupid.
Warning: High mushroom intake today...
Ya, I was kind of leaning towards getting Vista anyway, since it is the newest one, and they might fix little problems with it later, while if I get XP, I'll feel like I am kind of stuck in the past.
While the things thompa listed are definitely annoying, they're smaller things, and I don't think they'll sway me away from the OS. Right now I feel like I'm just going to try Vista out, hope it's not that bad, and if it is, learn how to partition and how to use Linux :)
Don't forget the insignificant cost... and it might be worth considering taht SP1 is just around the corner - supposedly..!
Also, look at the different versions - there are some big differences and some things in XP have been removed in the 'lower' versions of Vista.
Just last night I was trying to use Windows Fax and Scan which is only available in the more costly version. When I started it up, there pops up the 'Are you sure?'screen - even though it's an MS product! Quite annoying. There are so many facilities in this program missing... like it will only send .tif files - not .jpg or .pdf as attachments.. and initially I couldn't get it to use a long distance call carrier.. although I tricked it into doing that after a few hours!
XP will be around for a long time if Business reporters are correct in the view that most businesses are putting off migrating to Vista for the time being. Most large businesses see no benefit... I know a few that are replacing Vista with XP SP2 on new machines to make sure that there is no maintenance overhead.
After all one has to look at the benefits. Don't expect a faster start up, shut down, or loading of programs. XP is reliable.. so there is no bonus there either.
I am a tech junkie and love exploring the latest products... but you will need lots of time to work with Vista and if you are looking to be productive... then be prepared for a slow-down!
From what i have heard from jbennet (mate of mine and fellow poster here) Vista is too 'fluffy' and is very system draining. I myself don't use Vista and don't intend to unless it is crucial, in the instance that everyone, everywhere uses it, along with there being a penalty for using XP :D I am going to try and jump Vista, unless someone can prove that it is worth buying a new computer with it pre-installed.
As with any Microsoft product, you'll find opinions very split on this issue. I like Vista a lot more than XP, and it's because of the little things. For instance, I find Aero quite pleasing in that it smoothes a lot of effects, but doesn't interfere (as some of the Linux alternatives do). UAC hasn't been a problem for me - it only seems to come up when I update software, change system settings, or run Visual Studio (and the latter only when I want to use IIS, which requires admin privileges to debug). The new start menu does take some getting used to, and I sort of prefer the expanding one they had in previous versions, but the search is a nice addition; either way, it's not bad, it's just different.
On the other hand, I would strongly suggest that you have at least 2GB of memory. I two computers running Vista, one has 2GB, the other has 4GB. They both run fine (the 2GB is a little slow under a heavy load), but having less than that would probably be frustrating.
Don't forget the insignificant cost... and it might be worth considering taht SP1 is just around the corner - supposedly..!
I have it on good authority that SP1 is, in fact, "just around the corner" :icon_wink:
UAC hasn't been a problem for me - it only seems to come up when I update software, change system settings, or run Visual Studio (and the latter only when I want to use IIS, which requires admin privileges to debug).
I have to agree. I don't see why so many people make such a fuss over UAC (Actually I do: it's an entire generation bred to despise Microsoft and make a big fuss over every little thing they do, not because they are smart and decisive, but because other people tell them to. Some don't even know *why* they hate Microsoft so much). It really only pops up when I'm installing stuff or doing things that modify the system. I like the fact that it doesn't discriminate any program based on it's author. It gives me the peace of mind to know that if something malicous happened to latch itself onto any software in my system, no matter who made it, it could do nothing without me knowing.
As for SP1, I've read that February 15 is when it should be out by. They say Microsoft doesn't want to come out and admit it in case they need to make last minute changes and extend the date. They also said the current builds are very stable so chances are that date may be final. But really, it's just gossip... :P
If you are buying a new PC with Vista installed, you have a reasonable assurance that it has appropriate drivers for the hardware. Finding XP drivers for new hardware is a hit or miss proposition. (Probably more than half the posts on HP/Compaq laptop forum are for help finding XP drivers.)
Many of the power sucking fluffy things in Vista can be turned off - set the theme to Classic and you may see 10% CPU usage freed up. Same with the Desktop Sidebar gadgets. There are tweaks that disable the frequent UAC pop ups with actually turning off UAC, but you will still have to respond to "Mother May I?" in some cases.
It is more of a memory hog than XP. Figure you need minimum 1GB RAM, and that's not counting what may be used by the video system in shared memory situations. 2GB is probably the sweet spot for average users.
In closing, I find that Vista continues the trend of the computer being more in Redmond's control than the owner's. Big Brother Bill knows what's best for us. Of course he does;)
In my opinion, Vista is a great OS, with many new features. People say it's slow, buggy, etc. because they don't "feed" it the right way. Vista is a hungry OS, but if you feed it, it will run like a rocket.
Here are the goods of Vista:
1. Revamped and Improved security
2. Aero for premium versions
3. Sidebar, Calendar, and Windows Mail
4. Simpler windows update
5. Better start menu with search
6. Media Center for ultimate and home premium
7. Flip 3-D for premium versions
8. Internet Explorer 7 with phishing filter
9. Better and improved games
10. Much More!!!
Here are the bads of Vista:
1. Compatibility Issues with older software, printers, and applications.
2. New OS= have to learn how to use
3. Requires 2gb ram or higher to run smoothly while multitasking.
4. UAC is annoying and many turn it off.
5. Can run slow if low on disk space or has not enough ram.
6. Vista is known as the "memory hog".
But, if you buy a new pc with 2gb+ ram, a 120gb+ hdd @5400rpm or more, decent video card, and vista home premium or ultimate, you are almost guaranteed a smooth and quick pc. Any 1ghz processor or higher will work great as long as it is dual core or quad core. A broadband connection will enhance your experience even more!
If you are a gamer, certain games may run sluggishly on vista pc's even if they were great on xp. So if you are a gamer, and your games don't work well on vista, try to dual boot vista and xp to get both of them when you need them. Just be aware that microsoft will soon stop supporting windows xp or giving it any updates, and new apps and games may be made for vista only.
If you want a great laptop, buy an hp dv9700t series notebook. It is the best bang for the buck, has a 17" screen and has the option for 4gb ram and a partially shared video card (nvidia 8600m gs with 256mb dedicated and 767mb shared. This video card has the best performance.
Hope that helps!!
P.S. Just remember that the key product for vista performance is ram, and ram is very cheap!!!
Hello,
I have a quadcore ACER pc with 2GB ram with a Geforce 8600GT video card, in the first months when I runned World of Warcraft it was amazingly performant, even with high video settings, but lately I have troubles with my FPS, however my memory usage still looks the same (about 75%), I have 2 screens so I opened the monitor tool when running WoW and noticed a high increase in In/Out Disc Write/Read and a CPU increase at the moments the FPS really drops, when I look at the proccess doing that, it's vista/system realted stuff.
Before pointing to virus/addware I have Norton Internet Security 2008 and use Firefox with no script and addblock.
Is it possible that Vista one way or the other after a while uses more resources, with the same applications running ?
I suggest getting vista, i have UAC turned off and nothing bad has came from that.
Nothing Bad!
Adv.
More security, more features, many company now days have their drivers for vista....etc
Dis-adv.
Resource hunger (Memory & CPU speed)
Annoying UAC (I dont like to turn it off anyway)
So you get to choose. If it was a vote, +1 for Vista :)
VISTA MEMORY HOG MYTH
Vista is a vast improvement on XP. It treats the RAM as a flexible cache to feed applications 100 times faster than from disk. Applications take priority and squeeze that cache right down.
VISTA VERSIONS - SHITE
Damn Microsoft! And Toshiba for that matter. But Microsoft first. Vista Premium Home doesn't allow users to get to the policy editor. This'll get hacked but for now, I've found no solution. Now Toshiba - the Qosmio comes with Vista Home Premium and they offer no option for Vista Ultimate.
Let me warn you now that if you want policy editing, install Ultimate immediately after creating your recovery DVD. You will have bought the retail upgrade version of Ultimate only to find that it forces you to do a clean install - shite if you've already installed all your apps. This is Qosmio advice, but likely to be true for any high end laptop with fancy devices built into it, esp. GeForce 9600M GT.
APPS COMPATIBILITY - OK
I was pleasantly surprised to find a legacy Windows application (good on W2000) that needed a compatibility setting in XP Pro (but wouldn't run in XP Home), that application ran straight away in Vista.
UAC
I can live with it but I know what you mean.
AERO
I've noticed no CPU drain due to Aero. I agree with the reply that regarded Aero as a gimmick - but the damned Toshiba people won't allow their excellent Movie Player (with HD Upscaling) to work unless Aero is running. But, as I said, Aero isn't draining the CPU at all.
All in all I've no regrets using Vista - as if I had a cjhoice with the Qosmio. BuT i DO LIKE THE 18½" screen, the fingerprint and camera recognition stuff and the Wireless sensitivity is outstanding (4 bars on the Qosmio, 2 bars on the Dell XPS) in a poor location at home.
"Vista Premium Home doesn't allow users to get to the policy editor."
neither does xp home. Not much point for it, seeing as they cant join a domain.
"I've noticed no CPU drain due to Aero".
Thats the entire point of aero. DWM is designed to use DirectX for drawing widows under aero, instead of using GDI like before (basic theme still uses GDI). DirectX rendering is offloaded to the graphics card instead of the CPU (which was previously used for rendering in XP)
The procedure to downgrade from widows vista to xp in a lap top is the worst experience I ever had.
thats because XP is ancient, no surprise it didnt work well.
Honestly, in my experience, there is nothing majorly wrong with Vista at all, unless you install it on a previously XP computer. Usually, and I stress usually, there will be no real problems with Vista if it is pre-installed on your machine, as I am using an HP G60 laptop with Vista Home Premium installed, and have had no problems at all. The only problems were with some Acer products such as the Aspire One, and they are now sticking with XP, so that doesn't affect you.
XP was fine. Vista is as fine as XP was at the same release stage.
Vista has learned some lessons from XP.
Windows 7 will learn some lessons from Vista.
The only really shitty Windows was ME.
well ME was only designed as a stopgap because neptune wasnt ready. Neptune later became XP, with which MS merged the home (previously DOS based) and business (NT based) lines.
My system has been fine, I think I've had it for a little over a year now. Some things that come to mind though, and I'm not a computer expert - these are just my observations :
- the computer is constantly drumming with noise, as if it's busy doing something, this is fine, but I don't remember XP being so noisy
- the interface is not very intuitive, and the search function is not very extensive either
- the CD/DVD drive is very selective with what it will read, which to be honest, is the biggest problem I've encountered
All I have to say is that I'll be excited to try to the Windows 7 beta, but if not, I'll manage with Vista.
the computer is constantly drumming with noise, as if it's busy doing something, this is fine, but I don't remember XP being so noisy
Vista indexes your files for searching when idle. It also defragments when idle to make your pc faster.
the search function is not very extensive
By default it will only do some of your stuff for speed/size considerations. Adjust the indexer via control panel.
the CD/DVD drive is very selective with what it will read, which to be honest, is the biggest problem I've encountered
had this issue with a number of pcs. Doesnt seem to be a vista bug.
1. Vista hogs resources, this was a HUGE issue at initial release because people wanted to install it on existing hardware, but now that systems have caught up and people are mainly putting it on new systems the performance has improved.
2. Vistas default settings aren't well thought out. The security pop-ups are obnoxious and redundant (it tells you you're going to need to authorize something, makes you click okay, and then has you actually authorize it). Most of this can be changed to your taste.
3. Drivers and software compatibility are an issue, but this is like the performance problem. If you're buying a whole new system out of the box and either replace existing programs/peripherals or make sure they're vista ready you'll be fine.
4. Many people don't like how different vista is, it doesn't feel intuitive to somebody who has only known 98/2k/xp. But this is a matter of preference and you get used to it.
Over-all most of the complaints about Vista are a matter of taste and the rest can be solved with an extra gig of ram and vista ready accessories.
A. A lot of people like the new features in vista, the side-bar, the network printer search, the integration of media-center, the feature that shows a preview of windows at the taskbar (I should know what it's called, but I don't). Most of these features can be added to XP using third party apps, but it's nice to have them included. Most of them can also be turned off easily if you don't like them or want to keep the system "lean".
b. Future proofing counts for a lot. I don't push vista very hard, I'm always happy to put XP on a system if a client wants it, but when a customer who doesn't update frequently (their current system is more than four years old) I recommend Vista. Think about it. If somebody has a P4 built in '03 running XP, and they upgrade to a new system with XP on it. When they their next system in 2015, they'll be running a 13 year old operating system. XP rocks but I'm sure it will be sunsetted before then.
C. We're right on the cusp where it will be easier to support Vista and it's predecessor than XP. Right now everybody knows XP, but they're getting the hang of vista. I don't think it will be long before a new generation of IT staff (who learned on the Vista/Win7 platform) takes over first tier support.
Well,
I have used all of the Windows products from the beginning and can never remember a time when I have been more frustrated with an operating system!
A 'feature' of Vista is the 'User Access Control' which is a security measure introduced with Vista. There are dire warnings about switching it off - allowing viruses to enter the machine etc., but it is an absolute pain.
Every time you want to open a program that Microsoft do not want to recognise - like Firefox and some of their own products like Windows Fax and Scan, a window pops up asking if yuou are sure that you want to continue. In fact there are more pop ups with many things that you try to do.
If you want to connect the Vista computer to a network so that you can access devices and computers there, then there will probably be issues - many of them unresolvable because drivers are unavailable. I have a new Lexmark printer and cannot connect to it over the network from the Vista machine. Lexmark printers are not alone and there are lots of printers that will not connect. Access to the Vista machine will be difficult if not impossible without delving into the tangled depths of the security 'features'.
I also have a USB memory stick that I use with every other computer other than the Vista machine. The Vista machine will not recognise it. I bought it in mid-2007.
I was fortunate to attend a Vista release show and all of the emphasis was on security.. particularly for business not ease of use or reliability. The product is clearly aimed at this sector where the 'boss' may want to fully control his PC's so that even USB drives cannot be used, no software can be added, internet access is limited and severely controlled. Machines can be locked down so tightly they will not allow any flexibility.. like adding a new printer without bringing in a tech guy.
Forget the Aero interface - it is 'cute' but you will tire of using it and eventually forget it.
I also do not like the new 'Start' menu where it can be difficult to find the program you need. Unlike XP the list of program files does not expand across the screen to show them all. Vista has a scrollable window which shows some programs and other folders with programs where further delving is necessary. More work than XP.
Note that I am not plugging Linux... but the disk space overhead and the slow boot up and shut down times should make you look in that direction also if you must change....
I agree with all of these and it seems to me that Vista gets more Virii/malware/spy ware than XP does. Probably because many 3rd party software does not work/install on the standard version of Vista (64-bit, what you find in most computers at stores). The speech recognition may seem cool at first, but soon it becomes more work than typing, as it continually mixes words up. Many a time I've been gaming, and Speech recognition wakes up, and tries to start a program. Stay with XP. Way more secure, more flexibility, and compatibility
The best way to know if you like vista or not is to test it...
and the post above, vista gets malware and viruses ONLY if you don't protect it :P I've had my vista since the near ending of the beta or costumer testing program, whatever it was...basically...since August of 2006...quiet a while, I'm used to vista MORE than I'm used to xp...
people that whine about UAC, just go to CONTROL PANEL>>>USER ACCOUNTS>>>USER ACCOUNT CONTROL>>> and TURN IT OFF...simple, it won't annoy you, if you don't like it so much...I've turned mine off and not having any problems...
I haven't gotten any spyware or malware or viruses for a while now...those that I do get are easily deleted...I have a spyware program running daily scans of my computer...an anti-viruses blocking every virus attempt, i get prompted...and a malware program to scan for malware...and in my region, I had to repair more than 7 computers from viruses of the same type...but I didn't get it...depends on how well you protect your system...I also have windows firewall working...and my router firewall protecting and detecting any hacker attacks...
Now vista taking resources, ya, some programs do take a lot of resources to work, other than that, I have a 2gb ram and 500gb hd, and it's working pretty well...although the start up is kinda slow, but it's my fault...I only have 21 icon spaces left on my desktop out of 117, and I have 75 processes running and starting along with windows...but that can be easily fixed...
Any driver issues I've had have been resolved by me with a little research...those that want to do it, or use vista, will...those that don't are just refusing to get to know vista and use it...
I now have windows 7 on another computer, and it's working VERY fast on a less stronger computer than vista is...yet works faster...takes about 1 minute to boot up and ready for use, opening programs and browsers, like it was already on for a couple minutes...also I like the UAC in windows 7, I didn't turn it off, as it gives you options to change settings, and you have a YES or NO button and is much faster to load...and uses less resources...I have been testing the windows 7 beta since like the second day of it's release...it's just a beta...but it's working like a full OS...besides a couple old drivers not being found, and some games don't work...other than that...it's fully working for me...
I now have windows 7 on another computer, and it's working VERY fast on a less stronger computer than vista is...yet works faster...takes about 1 minute to boot up and ready for use, opening programs and browsers, like it was already on for a couple minutes...also I like the UAC in windows 7, I didn't turn it off, as it gives you options to change settings, and you have a YES or NO button and is much faster to load...and uses less resources...I have been testing the windows 7 beta since like the second day of it's release...it's just a beta...but it's working like a full OS...besides a couple old drivers not being found, and some games don't work...other than that...it's fully working for me...
Oh I LOVE Windows 7. Even as it is based off of Vista, they fixed some stuff.
and the post above, vista gets malware and viruses ONLY if you don't protect it :P I've had my vista since the near ending of the beta or costumer testing program, whatever it was...basically...since August of 2006...quiet a while, I'm used to vista MORE than I'm used to xp...
I haven't gotten any spyware or malware or viruses for a while now...those that I do get are easily deleted...I have a spyware program running daily scans of my computer...an anti-viruses blocking every virus attempt, i get prompted...and a malware program to scan for malware...and in my region, I had to repair more than 7 computers from viruses of the same type...but I didn't get it...depends on how well you protect your system...I also have windows firewall working...and my router firewall protecting and detecting any hacker attacks...
I have pretty much everything you have, yet got hacked because my old backup, ThreatFire, could not be installed on 64-bit Vista.
people that whine about UAC, just go to CONTROL PANEL>>>USER ACCOUNTS>>>USER ACCOUNT CONTROL>>> and TURN IT OFF...simple, it won't annoy you, if you don't like it so much...I've turned mine off and not having any problems...
People can't seem to figure that out
Dont turn off UAC it breaks all sorts of things, like folder redirection.
Dont turn off UAC it breaks all sorts of things, like folder redirection.
So, Vista isn't all that wonderful then!
I have pretty much everything you have, yet got hacked because my old backup, ThreatFire, could not be installed on 64-bit Vista.
ahh...I have no idea how 64-bit vista is...I have a 32-bit...
Dont turn off UAC it breaks all sorts of things, like folder redirection.
you got to throw something out there to please some people
and I've had UAC turned off for months, and my folder redirection is working fine and so is everything else...I don't see/get how it breaks things? mind elaborating on the details of things it breaks?
ahh...I have no idea how 64-bit vista is...I have a 32-bit...
You have no idea how lucky you are. Some of my favorite games are 16-bit or lower, and 64-bit Vista goes, "NEVER!!!!!!!!"
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