linux 107 Posting Shark
Paul.Esson 53 Junior Poster
you cant beat vb.net for rapid development of graphical windows applications
Yea you can, C#, less typing } is quicker to write then End Sub.
VB.net only single line comments.
VB.net more typing
Dim name as String
compared to
String name;
and all the same classes, plus you got things like the 'unchecked' keyword.
:. therefor you can beat VB.net for rapid development in windows, or you could just use C++ and .NET :).
ZZucker 342 Practically a Master Poster
The way I understand it, C was developed to write the Unix operating system. C++ was a major improvement of C. Java was an improvement of C++ and C# was a MS ripoff of Java.
I started to read the book "How to teach yourself Java in ten years" :)
but I kept falling asleep.
I picked up Python that was used in my Biochemistry class in just about a day from the class handouts.
jbennet 1,618 Most Valuable Poster Team Colleague Featured Poster
no. an ms rip off of java is j# or j++ or whatever it was called (doesnt exist anymore)
Ene Uran 638 Posting Virtuoso
If you think VB, C, C++, C# or Java is really great stuff, then it's too late.
linux 107 Posting Shark
Visual Basic? You're serious about voting that here?
First off, Visual Basic's syntax isn't even real code if you think about it.
It's half-assed English with a few keywords.
I learned Visual Basic in 3rd grade. Honestly. It isn't hard, and it doesn't do much.
Ene Uran 638 Posting Virtuoso
Actually, Java and Python have a lot in common. Both languages compile to a bytecode that is then executed/interpreted with a virtual engine (JVM or PVM) specific to the operating system. Speeds are pretty comparable.
So yes, the only real difference is the syntax. An offspring of Python called Jython lets you use Python style syntax with Java libraries and compiles to Java bytecode. A happy marriage!
The power of the whole thing is that you can create Java bytecode with Python syntax. That will allow you to distribute your bytecode to just about any computer that is on the internet, since most browsers use the Java engine anyway. On top of that Jython is free and open source.
linux 107 Posting Shark
Isn't Java free and open source as well?
jbennet 1,618 Most Valuable Poster Team Colleague Featured Poster
sort of, now, but it didnt used to be and i think its under the same opensource + loads of restrictions licence that solaris is now under
linux 107 Posting Shark
Aha. What is there that Java can do that Python can't?
Paul.Esson 53 Junior Poster
Java was released under the GPL, Java can be compiled into bytecode and run onto of a virtual machine, But since python is interprated, it cannot.
I have a book called 'C++ in 5 minutes'. I personally struggle to read approx 300pages in 5 minutes.
Anyhow I wouldn't say that C++ was way better then C or that Java was way better then C++.
C++ and C are quite alot different and usefull in different ways, C++ is object oriented ( meaning overhead :P ) while C is not (although it can be used in an object oriented way using a libary like gobject ).
So if you want to write a libary that can be called by .NET for instance and talk to your C# program using the .NET interop features, you would write the libary in C, Now thats one real magor advantage to C, If you write in C it makes it very easy for you to use that libary in other lanaguaes.
I would assume that its the same for writing libarys ( that are not written in python) for use in python, prolly alot easy done in C then C++.
Java and C# are quite similar langues, but I do think that C# is the better of the two, Although the Java Virtual Machine runs on alot more platforms then .net do so... Thats one to Java.
But properties in C# are nice features so are generics ( java now has generics as well ) unchecked code.
but I really can't think of all the advantages right now.
linux 107 Posting Shark
Personally, anything that is .NET based is out of the question for me, as Mono isn't the greatest on Linux.
bumsfeld 413 Nearly a Posting Virtuoso
... Java can be compiled into bytecode and run onto of a virtual machine, But since python is interprated, it cannot.
...
Utter bull! Python is also compiled to bytecode and then run onto virtual machine. Please educate yourself a little before you say ignorant things.
Have you actually read this post in this thread?
http://www.daniweb.com/forums/post575389-40.html
a1eio 16 Junior Poster
java is just like python, it's just that java's virtual machine is a hell of a lot more widely spread, known and used than pythons interpretter.
why do you think Jython is so good at what it does.
Paul.Esson 53 Junior Poster
Utter bull! Python is also compiled to bytecode and then run onto virtual machine. Please educate yourself a little before you say ignorant things.
Have you actually read this post in this thread?
http://www.daniweb.com/forums/post575389-40.html
I stand corrected.
Paul.Esson 53 Junior Poster
Personally, anything that is .NET based is out of the question for me, as Mono isn't the greatest on Linux.
I have found Mono to be ok, as long as you are not set on useing the say Forms api or somthing like that, GTK# etc. seem to work quite well.
Some pritty cool little projets have come out for linux using mono such as bashee and fspot.
But yes I would think its alot less mature then python.
Anyhow I also noticed you could turn the automatic garbage collection on and off in python, although I think you are unable to do it in Java or under .NET. so that is definatly one to python.
The power of the whole thing is that you can create Java bytecode with Python syntax. That will allow you to distribute your bytecode to just about any computer that is on the internet, since most browsers use the Java engine anyway. On top of that Jython is free and open source.
Browsers don't come with a JVM, you would have to download it sepratly to run Java applets as such and Java applet programming does not seem to be that popular anymore. Actully I personlly don't have a JVM installed on any of my computers at the moment, except for the one that ships with open office for running open office.
Also does a Jython application get compiled into Java bytecode or get run ontop of an interpriter on top of Java ?
and the answer to this question is Yes it does compile into bytecode.
linux 107 Posting Shark
Mono doesn't have what I used to love about Visual Basic and Visual C#, which is the Visual Form Designer.
Java's syntax is too "dotty" for me. Meaning.everthing.is.like.this*
a1eio 16 Junior Poster
1.1 What is Jython?
Jython implements the Python programming language on the Java(tm) Platform. It consists of a compiler to compile Python source code down to Java bytecodes which can run directly on a JVM, a set of support libraries which are used by the compiled Java bytecodes, and extra support to make it trivial to use Java packages from within Jython.
vegaseat 1,735 DaniWeb's Hypocrite Team Colleague
To paraphrase a1eio's comment:
Java functions just like Python, it's just that Java's virtual machine is more widely spread. To a large degree due to Microsoft's refusal to acknowledge Python, some kind of kneejerk reaction to the success its competitors like Google and Yahoo have with Python. Let's face it, MS is in the language business and doesn't want to endorse an open source intruder language. They had to learn to live with Sun's Java.
linux 107 Posting Shark
Why wouldn't Microsoft want to endorse an open source language like Python? What would they lose?
Paul.Esson 53 Junior Poster
Mono doesn't have what I used to love about Visual Basic and Visual C#, which is the Visual Form Designer.
I don't like the fact that the Visual Studio forum designer produces code for the form. I much perfer libglades way of doing it where you import an XML file created in glade. It makes certain you seperate your view from your controller in a MVC kinda sense.
I do love desgining UI within a UI tho, I think its overly annoying attempting to rember that your going to want some kinda grid layout embedded in a table layout and then you want to place your button inside the table layout ( and when you finally run it it possably looks nothing like you expected ).
Also monodevelop has a nice fourm designer, but I prefer glade for that.
Let's face it, MS is in the language business and doesn't want to endorse an open source intruder language. They had to learn to live with Sun's Java.
I don't know if they really leant to live with it, Since of course they did create .NET and C#. .NET contains many concepts that used in both the JVM and I would say the PVM.
All convert into some fourm of bytecode (microsoft call it an intermediate language), all support garbage collection all I beleave support Just In Time compiling.
It would be I admit very nice if there was one Virtual Machine that could run all these languages ( Java, C#, Python, C++ etc. ) Then people making libarys for these languages wouldn't have to program bindings for 3 Virtual Machines ( gtk has bindings for python, mono and java ).
a1eio 16 Junior Poster
Why wouldn't Microsoft want to endorse an open source language like Python? What would they lose?
competition?
easier for a giant like MS to keep python in 'check' than allow another powerful open source language like python which could result in a drop in sales if software becomes easier to develop and cheaper/free to buy??
sneekula 969 Nearly a Posting Maven
Then there is Boo, has a Python like syntax and ties in with C#. Vegaseat left a code snippet of Boo code at:
http://www.daniweb.com/code/snippet429.html
hacker9801 49 Junior Poster
Python is an awesome scripting language, and it's very extensible.
I used to use it all the time, but now I'm learning C++. I wouldn't touch java, it's JVM is slow (IMO slower than Python's interpreter) and it's just terrible.
linux 107 Posting Shark
But, why would someone choose Java over Python? Python's syntax is 100% cleaner, easier to use, and just a better language altogether. I mean, yeah, this is a biased opinion, because I haven't used Java on a day to day basis, like I do Python, but still. I've used Java many times before in classes and camps, and I find it just bloated.
sneekula 969 Nearly a Posting Maven
But, why would someone choose Java over Python? Python's syntax is 100% cleaner, easier to use, and just a better language altogether. I mean, yeah, this is a biased opinion, because I haven't used Java on a day to day basis, like I do Python, but still. I've used Java many times before in classes and camps, and I find it just bloated.
Java has been taught by college CS departments for many years. The typical inertia shown by CS staff makes certain that Java will be taught for many more years to come. There are hordes of Java programmers out there. Also Java, being more complex, ensures job security since development is slower and more programmers are needed to do the job.
Python, being easier and quicker to teach, would of course reduce the number of instructors too. Oh my!
ZZucker 342 Practically a Master Poster
Java has been taught by college CS departments for many years. The typical inertia shown by CS staff makes certain that Java will be taught for many more years to come. There are hordes of Java programmers out there. Also Java, being more complex, ensures job security since development is slower and more programmers are needed to do the job.
Python, being easier and quicker to teach, would of course reduce the number of instructors too. Oh my!
Vested interest is hard to overcome! In the mean time, many students are wasting time with stuffy syntax.
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