Member Avatar for Mushy-pea

Hello again. Allow me to describe my opinion on software design:

C and C++ should be abandoned (or substancially modified) as the default languages used for the writing of native executables and operating systems. The reason? Giving the programmer arbitrary control over pointers is un-necessary and leads to many bugs. What should be written in C/C++ is native compilers (or interpreters) for other languages that don't allow arbitrary pointer control (i.e. Python, Perl etc.).

Don't get me wrong, C/C++ has many good points. But I think that in most cases pointer control should be left to the compiler to deal with, leaving the programmer free to deal with what the program actually does (i.e. manipulate variables). I think future operating systems should use a no kernel approach where all processes run in the same memory space. This has already been done to an early development stage with Unununium (http://unununium.org). If arbitrary pointer control is not possible in the default language, protected mode addressing is not necessary and will come to be seen as inefficient and cumbersome.

What are your thoughts on this issue?

Steven.

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Member Avatar for Ancient Dragon

>>C and C++ should be abandoned
you don't have to use C/C++ if you don't want to, but don't expect everybody else to do so. Writing windows GUI programs is just a small part of the software design/programming efforts. And in some operating systems C and assembly language are the only two available programming languages. We can't just toss out a computer language just because some one doesn't like it.

>>I think future operating systems should use a no kernel approach where all processes run in the same memory space

That has already been tried -- see MS-DOS. A kernel is an absolutely essential part of any operating system, if there is no kernel then nothing will run and the kernel needs to be protected from corruption by other programs.

>>If arbitrary pointer control is not possible in the default language, protected mode addressing is not necessary

That is not true. There are a lot of other things that can cause a system to crash; pointers is only one of them.

Member Avatar for Mushy-pea

>>If arbitrary pointer control is not possible in the default language, protected mode addressing is not necessary

That is not true. There are a lot of other things that can cause a system to crash; pointers is only one of them.

Well, it seems I need to get my facts straight.

A kernel is an absolutely essential part of any operating system, if there is no kernel then nothing will run and the kernel needs to be protected from corruption by other programs.

I will gather my countering evidence and return :) .

Steven.

Member Avatar for Rashakil Fol

C and C++ should be abandoned (or substancially modified) as the default languages used for the writing of native executables and operating systems.

The Linspire team has already abandoned C and C++ and use Haskell as their preferred language for core OS development. That doesn't mean the kernel shouldn't be in C, though -- it's small enough (assuming it is) and important enough that it can be paid close attention to.

The reason? Giving the programmer arbitrary control over pointers is un-necessary and leads to many bugs. What should be written in C/C++ is native compilers (or interpreters) for other languages that don't allow arbitrary pointer control (i.e. Python, Perl etc.). Don't get me wrong, C/C++ has many good points. But I think that in most cases pointer control should be left to the compiler to deal with, leaving the programmer free to deal with what the program actually does (i.e. manipulate variables).

Programs don't manipulate variables; they interact with the kernel and with hardware. Some programming languages don't let you modify variables.

And C and C++ are terrible languages for writing native compilers (or for anything).

I think future operating systems should use a no kernel approach where all processes run in the same memory space. This has already been done to an early development stage with Unununium (http://unununium.org). If arbitrary pointer control is not possible in the default language, protected mode addressing is not necessary and will come to be seen as inefficient and cumbersome.

You'd have to compile every program before you run it. And what's going to do that? Programs would start up (insanely) slowly.

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