Why does Windows XP refuse to die? - Page 15

[Ancient Dragon]

its terreble if XP will be shut down

No one said XP is being shut down. It's your computer, run it as long as you want.

[Palebushman]

Welcome sanahwinari and thank you and Ancient Dragon, for steering this thread back on track. I was begining to think a 'Hijack' was occuring.
Most of my clients and friends are still using their XP's to run peripherals and programs that just don't function correctly on later versions of Windows, so no imminent signs of XP death with them. But, they also have their Apples, Win 7, Android or Linux OS's for ongoing Internet related usage. Needless to say, general nasties and virus creators, seem to be making a concerted effort to target any breed of OS, and the 'New' Windows versions will be no exception. Long live the well made hardware that will keep XP alive.

[Ancient Dragon]

See this post in this thread for open source Windows (ReactOS)

[Stuugie]

I'm happy that the company I am working for is updating our OS to 07 next month. Once that happens, I don't think I'll be seeing XP again as it will no longer be in my computing circle.

[Wil 0' Wisp]

This is what I am sending out to the worried of the world, it is simplified by design, OK? got that! This being sent from an XP machine...
There are some nice comment on the refered thread, almost dual story processing, apposed to dual core processing? sorry thats not XP talk if and only if you have XP64....

Facts (might be slighly less now)

1) 1/3 the PCs on the planet in use are running Windows XP. US and UK government and organisation are twisting the arm of Microsoft to extend this due to the cost of the 'upgrade' process
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/12/nhs_microsoft_win_xp_extended_support/

2) The people who are shouting loudest about this 'necessary upgrade' are the people trying to make the most money out of it. PC world, Curry's etc

Why?

How the money men make money

1) If you upgrade then a lot of your software may not work or be incompatible, you will have to buy new software.

2) If you upgrade then some of the hardware things you have and work fine, may not work , you will have to buy new hardware printer, camera, etc

3) You will have to buy a replacement PC

4) If you have seen Windows Hate (eight) you will know why buy this product is not a good idea. The user interface is best described as dire, unusable at best and it comes with 'Metro apps' which are dreadful to use. 8.1 improvement gives a start menu button which reload the ghastly start screen.

5) Your current email system/application will have to be changed to Live Mail or a email client software of your 'choice'.

Provisos

1) Keep your 'security' (Antivirus, firewall, antispy etc) software up to date and scan the PC a least once a week.

2) Move to a newer up to date browser ie Chrome, Firefox, Opera,

3) The amount of effort to take over your PC without installing some form of control software (via virus, phishing attack) exceeds the amount of profit by a long way. Almost all the updates are Microsoft patching Internet Explorer (see above)

[Wil 0' Wisp]

Yes I'am and have and will install the replacement start button software. 19 years! (1995 to 2014) of clicking on 'start' to shut something down goes hard with a lot of people when it goes missing. Yes I know about alt+F4 before someone chimes in with that. Smug is that well everyone is upgrading to Windows 7 comment. Time to point out that Windows7 is becoming a expensive rare comodity. The number of people who see Support for XP ending an think its going to explode and die is almost as good as Steve Jobs Marketing exercise (damm those little green apples again) due to the rapbid shouting about security breaches etc. from Micro*****

[Reverend Jim]

@Stuugie - I know of one application at Dovercourt when I retired in 2008. It was running, believe it or not, in a Windows 98 virtual machine.

[Tcll]

2) Move to a newer up to date browser ie Chrome, Firefox, Opera,

I can combat this... most browsers now-a-days aren't safe...
I've been using Opera12 due to Opera19 having page-loading issues (when turning security all the way up), and even Opera, being the safest of the modern browsers, had reported malware in it's temp directories.

what browsers to stay away from out of those:
- IE (security is very patchy, can be good or bad)
- Chrome (very little security, but notifies you about bad websites)

I've been using Comodo Dragon, which is basically a 100% safer rip-off of Chromium, for quite some time now, and have yet to see my compy slow down. :)

as for right now, I'm only using Comodo FW (free) with Avast, though I have a mis-directed IP to detour alot of threats...

running a custom shell and file manager also helps detour alot of threats.

[Ancient Dragon]

running a custom shell and file manager also helps detour alot of threats.

So does avoiding web sites known for spam/malware, i.e. porn sites and downloading pirated software.

[Tcll]

so does actually knowing how to use a computer.

set up your browser with Ad-Block Plus for at least a decent amount of protection.

[LaxLoafer]

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS11-083 - Critical
A vulnerability in TCP/IP can allow remote execution if an attacker sends a continuous flow of specially crafted UDP packets to a closed port on a target system.

Still feeling secure?

Firewalls cannot protect you from this type of attack. And remote execution can enable the attacker to take full control of your system, disable your anti-virus or anti-malware software, and steal your credentials, etc.

This is possibly why Microsoft suggest only running Windows XP disconnected from the Internet from now on. I also suspect they don't want to be held responsible for enabling the worlds largest bot net, given that 1/3 of computers are still running XP.

Thankfully the vulnerability was patched in later editions of Windows and doesn't affect Windows XP SP3. But the point I want to make really clear is that vulnerabilities like MS11-083 can and do exist, and it is only a matter of time before another exploit is discovered. Only next time Microsoft will not patch it.

Anyone who still believes Windows XP can be made secure definitely has (as another member kindly suggested) their heads buried in the sand. It's time to ditch XP!

[gerbil]

A proper firewall can protect you from such attacks. You can stealth your ports so that they do not acknowledge incoming requests, or if on a limited client LAN you can block all but the specified computers. If a single PC on a LAN, you can block all incoming requests or traffic.
My Comodo firewall used to report in its log about two hits per minute from various IP addresses; that was with a modem, but since incorporating a router with firewall my Comodo has recorded not one single hit in five years. The router opens a UDP port for incoming traffic, but that traffic must be for a specified application - if it's not running then the port is closed.
Another thing - Comodo lets you set packet flow limits. Set the whole package up right and your TCP/IP stack won't see an unwarranted thing. I occasionally run tests such as that from GRC; they fail to penetrate.
There are other free firewalls; all take some setting up and some people are not prepared for that, nor for the flow of permission requests for unknown processes or potentially unsafe actions. But then, probably some soldiers feel that a bulletproof vest is a nuisance.

[Tcll]

remote execution

get Comodo Firewall...

if I can remember exactly how I set it up, I'll tell you, but you definately want to enable paranoid mode on HIPS alerts.

before execution, HIPS gives you the option to allow or block ANY executions going on.

I need to make that "ANY" take up 2 lines of text. :P

XP by itself can't protect you... you need to use the proper security software if you expect to be protected.

[Palebushman]

@Tcll

And for those that don't understand ALL the IT jargon, HIPS means?

Here you go folks:-

Short for host-based intrusion prevention system, HIPS is an IPS or intrusion prevention system designed for security over host-based systems where intrusions and infections are dealt with at the individual workstation level to provide a more effective level of security.

[gerbil]

I do gotta say.... if cars were like bloody computer systems then NOBODY would drive.
You can replace "cars" with any other convenience you normally take for granted. When electric sewing machines first appeared the motors were simply bolted on the outside, and the belt drive went to them instead of to the treadle wheel. For all best efforts, personal computers are still at that stage.

[Palebushman]

What an exquisite analogy gerbil. Brilliant!!

[Wil 0' Wisp]

Sorry I don't buy the vunerabilties issue. How many security patches is it going to take to fix all the ones popping up with each new O/s. If you don't like it switch to something safer... less or a target. A quick inspection shows most of the attacks are generated from infected or phishing emails. Which are generated in turn by organised crime. You can try Symantec enterprise security, one slight problem is it may not allow you to do anything on your PC. Think about it you have to be a viable target, worth going for. So for comapnies good firewalls should be there already. I ran ICOp ones and as pointed out you could see probing going on all the time. The Internet isn't safe, the wisdom is anything you want is on the internet and everything you don't want is out there which ever O/s you use what ever browser you use. If you keep it clean, update your security softwae and run it XP is fine.

[Wil 0' Wisp]

Here is the proof of what I have said in previous posts Just rebuilt my XP system to Windows 7 64 and now I have a Oracle VM VirtualBox running XP Professional so I can run My DTP package and if required OE. Wahts more if something nasty arrives I have a previous image to go back to.

[JorgeM]

Keep in mind that attackers are not interested in coming accross technical people that understand how to secure their computer and are not easily fooled by phising, etc.. They depend on the other 99% of people that barely know how to use a computer outside of mail and internet apps.

For these people, running on a unsupported system, with no additional security fixes for protection are at the most risk.

Just this week... Vulnerability in Internet Explorer Could Allow Remote Code Execution.. while there isnt a fix out yet, there will definately be no fix for XP.

At least upgrading to a supported version of Windows 7, 8 with a system that auto patches itself, is far better than taking their chances on XP.

Of course, the best security layer in my opinion is end-user education.

[Tcll]

most of my infections come from adware installers from "free" programs.

but the 2nd most comes from 3rd party content on websites I visit normally.
(google included)

there are trackers that use google content to infect you.
as in simply doing a google search alone (not even clicking the links) can get you infected.

heck I got a rootkit, that spammed explorer.exe and killed my RAM, from using Opera which is supposed to be the safest popular browser...

no joke either, one of my sticks died because of it, and the other seems ready to go as well...
(hibernation data constantly corrupts)

so that's why I push to use a browser that can protect you...
all of the popular browsers have horrible security.

[Ancient Dragon]

most of my infections come from adware installers from "free" programs

DON'T DO THAT ANY MORE!

[JorgeM]

Wow, just released by Microsoft. They have a fix for the recent IE vulnerability and decided to include XP as well. That was probably a smart thing to do on their part.

https://technet.microsoft.com/library/security/ms14-021

[Tcll]

DON'T DO THAT ANY MORE!

haha don't worry, now that I'm using Dragon with WOT and Avast extensions, I know if the link I'm clicking on has a good rating. :)

but there are still those freewares that force-install adware with and w/o your notification.

those are things I can't exactly help... especially when a software requires an adware installation to run >_<
(as in the required program containes force-ware)

Comodo FireWall is able to block just about every adware installer in that area, and Avast AV can remove most threats as well. :)

[Ancient Dragon]

but there are still those freewares that force-install adware with and w/o your notification.

Stop installing all those freewares, you are just asking for trouble.

[Tcll]

I can't afford to buy software... I can't even afford my own internet connection...

the last freeware I got that required another freeware with adware was an electronics simulator.
luckilly that installer didn't force-install the adware.

so yea, it's not like I'm downloading games and such...
I have one heck of an advanced hobby :P

so I think I'm excused :P

[Ancient Dragon]

Nope -- get another hobby.

[Tcll]

DANGIT!
lol

unfortunately: http://picasaweb.google.com/Tcll5850/UMC#
I'm afraid you're a bit late there mate. :3

and even so, I'm protected from most (can't give a % cause IDK all) threats.
I have a friend who's a black-hat hacker who tried to pro-DDOS and RAT my network...
it didn't work well for him. XDD
(and by that I mean it didn't work at all)

though I'm sure those things are on the low end of the effective line...
what I really need to worry about is RootKits.

[gerbil]

Avast Free... used it for years. Just last week I switched to AVG 2014 Free. It's good. More efficient than Avast ie. stuff loads faster, from apps, files to web pages. About cleanup and detection rates.... well, you should peruse the lastest AV-test and AV-comparitives findings, plus pay some attention to E. Kaspersky on the subject.
AVG is not the best, but it now rates better than Avast (which incidentally, is used by more than 50% of EU clients..). Avast is darn near the worst of those considered! Bitdefender and Kaspersky rate the best, but neither are free. Bitdefender Free is not at all user friendly, should not be considered by any who have black/grey apps - you cannot always exclude them.. :o (some you can). For others, it's probably fine, at least so if it uses the paid-for engine: I don't know about that. You don't need to touch a thing (there isn't any configuration interface).
So, AVG 2014 Free... I'm happy so far. Have yet to test it on a drive-by loaded site.

[AffineMesh]

I noticed the recent Windows update too, so soon after Microsoft declared no more updates for Windows XP. Naturally I wondered how this would affect XP users, and also how many evil doers had already spotted it. Yet another vulnerability in IE, potentially allowing attackers to execute code remotely. Oh no, not again!

But then we hear Microsoft have back tracked - they will release an update for XP users, as a one off special exception. Now I'm beginning to doubt whether this really will be the last update.

How much effort is require by Microsoft to issue patches, and how much trouble would it cause if they did not?

Perhaps the recent patch could be viewed as simply an update for Internet Explorer, rather than the operating system. In which case we might see more updates for XP, in respect of other components that are common across all editions of Windows.

Microsoft is trying desperately to get people to move away from XP. Actually, they like customers to upgrade to the current flavor of Windows, the one we all love. However I suspect the patches for XP are likely to keep flowing, at least until some update appears that isn't immediately backward compatible.

There's an argument for moving away from XP, but not necessarily the one that Microsoft would like you to believe. If they are truly concerned about vulnerabilities in XP, and the expense of continuing support, why not allow users to upgrade from XP to Windows Vista for a small fee?

[Tcll]

I don't trust AVG... and never will... it's known for destroying computers.

and the only thing that would get me to budge from XP is if they restore the freedoms XP has, and remove software control and all spying utilities from the kernal.

the only major limitation you have with 7 is you can't fully customize the UI like you can with XP.
sure most of 7's UI is already more customizable than XP's by default, but I don't like their interface...
(look and all)

I did once change XP's interface to completely look like 7 (including the glassy-blurred transparency on everything), but yea, that's what turned me off...
things just don't look right and are too bulky for my tastes...
if I could easily change that to what I have with XP as easily as I can with XP, I would... heh

but that's just the UI alone... there's quite alot I can complain and rant about with the new kernal, as well as it's requirements.